July 2009

[Honeylioness]

Angel 33 - 07/09/09 09:25 AM

Ok I have a personal problem that I need help with. I am at my wits end.

My once loving 12 year old son has turned into this mean and hateful person. He argues not stop about everything, throws fits like he is 2, says horrible mean things to his siblings. I swear to god it is like my loving child went to sleep and this demon possessed child woke up. I have tried to talk to him, that works for a few days. I have tried taking away privileges, that makes him more hateful and mean. I do not know what to do. I am thinking about making him an appointment with a counselor so he has someone to talk to since he refuses to talk to me. He is now throwing a fit about that and saying I am saying he is mental. I didn't say that. I just think he has something going on that he needs to talk to someone about. UGH. This is all I need on top of my already stressful summer.

Angel 33 - 07/09/09 11:48 AM

It probably is puberty, but damn....he is meaner than a girl with PMS.Sad It doesn't help that my DSD is here for the summer (I love that child to death but), but she likes to push his buttons and get him yelling and fighting and then my DH yells at our son because DSD is so damn sneaky about the stuff she does that gets him yelling. She is an only child at her house and when she gets here...the first 2 weeks are hell because she has this mind set that if she thinks it is her turn she just takes over the computer, the video games, etc. She will literally take the controllers away or push him away from the computer. Then DH tells DS that he needs to share...nothing is said to her about waiting her turn or the fact she just took something away from him. It is and does get better the longer she is here, but OMG I about go nuts the first few weeks.


Honeylioness - 07/09/09 02:38 PM

Angel - in a effort to not think about the icky dentist appointment coming my way in two hours I was thinking about the situation with your son.

Did these changes in behavior happen before or after your step-daughter arrived? While it indeed may just be hormones and feeling as though he and his life are changing too quickly - her presence may have been the catalyst. Perhaps he acts out with you because he is actually very angry with his father about the unfairness of discipline with his step-sister - and he knows that to go mono-a-mono with dad is to invite a real butt whuppin'.

I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that based on your son's age that the step-daughter is perhaps 15-17? I must say that from experience they can be really snide, sneaky and vicious at that age. I would sit down with your husband and propose that for the next two weeks neither of you will referee or yell at either child when they cannot get along - which means no taking sides. Because it sounds to me as though Dad may not come down on his daughter because "...well, she is only here for a short time and I really don't get to see her as much as I would like yadda yadda yadda ...." ...and if this is the case than that girl bloody well KNOWS she can get away with murder with no consequences.

Instead tell both kids they are old enough to figure out how to get along like adults. So if Cindy is going to just take over the PC without even asking, then she best prepared to let David help himself to her _________. However if they have agreed that at 3:00pm David will get off the computer so she can use it for two hours - then you don't want to hear a peep out of either of them whining about it.

I would also tell them that if you DO here them having conflict over sharing say the PC or X-box or whatever - then that item goes away for 10 days from both of them. If that means you unplug it all and put it under your bed - then that is what you do. They should learn pretty quickly that you mean business and it is not worth it to them - especially her - to be such a brat.

Back to your son however, I second the suggestion about finding a minister or youth pastor etc. to spend some time talking with him. Kids will often tell outsiders things they won't their parents because either they are embarrassed or they are afraid of what their parents will think.

When your son accuses you again of treating him like he's "mental" just take a deep breath and in a soft QUIET voice say "No, I don't think that about you at all. I think that list most very intelligent people there are times when you can benefit from having a confidant to talk things out with. You are not crazy. Crazy people are the ones who struggle alone with difficulties and never ask to assistance - strong people recognize when they are a bit overwhelmed and hire someone to help"


Angel 33 - 07/09/09 05:50 PM

Honey wow you hit sooooo many things right on the head. Where do I even begin.

that the step-daughter is perhaps 15-19? I must say that from experience they can be really snide, sneaky and vicious at that age.

DSD is almost 15. For the most part she can be a very good kid, but you are so right that she can be so snide, sneaky and vicious. Her dad doesn't see it. He only sees his perfect little Angel. He is gone a lot and so I am the one who sees the ugly mean side. We get along really well, and I do treat her just like my own kid. I have been her stepmom since she was 2. It is so hard though when My DH just doesn't see the things she does but is so quick to jump on the things Boy Wonder does. Actually, he is very strict with the boys, and very wrapped around the girls fingers. I think he thinks they will break if he actually gets after them. It is very hard on Boy Wonder. He gets so angry and frustrated when he sees how differently the girls, specially the stepsister is treated. Now mind you, DSD does not talk back like BW does. BUT she is very very sneaky. BW isn't sneaky at all. So he gets in trouble. She will pretend like she wasn't involved. She DOES know that she has her dad wrapped around her pinky. She KNOWS how to get BW in trouble.

DH and I have already been in a huge fight over this this summer. I told him things HAVE to change. He has to stop treating BW like one of his soldiers.

We are not religious. I had a very bad experience with organized religion. My FIL is a preacher, but we do not see eye to eye on Boy Wonder. Needless to say, my DH got his parenting techniques from his father and I don't agree with them. I would be seeking the help of a child psychologist instead of a minister if we decide to go that route. Sorry, I really am not trying to offend anyone.

For the most part I do try to let the kids work out their disputes. Last night it ended up getting physical with DSD grabbing my son and him smacking her across the face. Today I told them that this behavior has to stop. I told them that the entire house is miserable because they can't seem to get along. I also told them that if they continue to fight, then next summer when we go on our cruise, they will not be going. DSD will go home to her mom and DS will go to my parent's house while we go.

Also, I took away the Xbox 360 today. I wondered if some of his attitude could be connected to playing it so much. Today has been a much much better day. There haven't been any serious blow ups. They were all really good at lunch time and joke around with each other at the table.



So that is where we are so far. I truly believe my son is very angry at how DH treats DSD like she is a breakable princess. I understand that he doesn't get to see her as much as he would like, but he is really making my life miserable because my son is so angry. Oh and he is hitting puberty...so that magnifies things by oh....10. I just wish I could get him to talk to me. I wish I could help him express his anger in a good productive way instead of being so mean and hateful.

[Honeylioness]

Honeylioness - 07/06/09 11:30 AM

Hello Ladies - Yes I have been MIA for several days so prepare yourself for a Lioness version of a "nitza" post!

But before I do .... can I just whine, My back is killing me!!!! It has been a LONG few days:

* Thursday afternoon we got off work early and I ran around getting the final things in place for the Town Fair. I had run over to a Guild member's apartment to borrow some folding tables but when I went to unlock my driver side door something went "clunk" inside - and now the key is stuck and won't turn either way so I can't get it out and can't unlock the door!! 40 minutes later AAA is working on the problem which takes 15 minutes to solve. But now I am not able to lock that door. Oh well. I am not sure there is much of a demand for 17 year old pick up trucks with mild body rust and no cool accessories.

* Then panic time - we are supposed to be displaying our group's raffle quilt and selling tickets for the same - except the person whom I thought has the quilt doesn't - and no one is really sure who DOES have the quilt!!!! Many phone calls later the quilt is located and arrangements made to get it to me tomorrow. I meant to finish packing up supplies etc but instead got a surprise phone call from one of the coolest ladies ever to live in Nebraska. That did way more good for my well being that being all "prepared".

* Friday my office was closed so I could finish the detail work that last night's call subverted. Then it was pack up the truck, swing by another member's house for the boutique items then creep my way into the fair area (aka vehicle chaos and I had to drive the wrong way along a one way street - DOH!!!) to unload said truck and begin setting up. Ever try to set up on of These by yourself?? Pain In De BUTT and nearly impossible. Then set up the quilt rack, hang the quilt after several false set-ups, get the tables assembled, decorate and collapse into my lawn chair.

* Then be pleasant and smile and answer the same 4 questions at least a hundred times. Not the most fun activity for an introvert by nature. An hour into the evening we got a burst of thunder and rain - great, I had not intended to wash the quilt this evening .. . I got to the fair grounds around 3:30 pm and was there until 11:00 pm - when we had to take down the quilt and pack away a lot of the items for over night. By the time I got home and unwound enough to sleep it was just after 1:00 am.

* 06:10 am Saturday morning my alarm went off. Oh Dear Lord - you MUST be kidding me!!! But the fair started again at 8:00 am and I was supposed to be there around 7:00 am to set up again. So I drag my body out of bed and stumbled my way through dressing etc and off to Dunkin Donuts for a caffeine transfussion. All set up and ready to go at 8:15 am when I learn that the flyer the town sent me weeks ago had a typo on it - They really did not start on Saturday until 9:00 am. Instead of finding someone to kill I got myself a Fried Dough instead from my church's booth.

* 04:00 pm Saturday afternoon. The fair is over, the booth disassembled and my office is full of tables and chairs and a borrowed canopy. I did manage to swing by the grocery store on the way home so I have something to eat tonight - that is IF I manage to get my body off my couch. But my office/studio looks like a war zone and I am almost dead on my feet with fatigue. I did catch a nap and managed to wake up in time to watch the Boston Pops local and national broadcasts.

* Sunday: Someone just kill me now. My back hurts so bad I think I may just get a replacement as this one is clearly broken. Did a whole lot of nothing - except I really needed to straighten my office, call people to come get their things, update my budget and actually pay some bills (which I realize I have not done in almost three weeks!!). It's a bad bad thing when you are on the Condo Association Board and get a letter from the property management company reminding you you did not pay your June fee. *SIGH*

[Honeylioness]

02 July 2009

Tori – I lived in the Seattle area for a total of 20 years (not consecutively) and I really like Vancouver – but still have to say I love Vancouver Island more – sorry!

Nitza! – You don’t know where Enumclaw is?? Shame on you young lady! It is at the base of Mt. Rushmore and where the King Country Fair is held each year. AND most importantly the Highland Games!!!!

Saving4Norway – Welcome. I must confess when I saw your screen name and where you live I thought “Uff Da – she needs to be in Ballard – ya sure ya bet cha”

Welcome to all of the newbies. You will find lots of encouragement and support here. You will soon see that we take a holistic approach to our financial lives here. Everything is wound up with our financial outlook. We do tend to move at warp speed at times, so just hang on. If you fall off the wagon (as most of us do from time to time) it frequently circles back to pick us up. Don't expect a big success right off the bat. This is hard work. Some of the toughest things you will ever do, but also some of the most rewarding.

One of the many MANY reasons I love the women here is because of statements like this! It is more a male trait to strictly compartmentalize their lives and not see the connections between events and responses.

This week for me is a prime example of the more holistic way women view things – especially money:
· Monday: I get Redhawk’s first call
· Tuesday: Feeling unsettled and antsy I consider running to McD’s for lunch – Nope, I have no cash in my wallet today, besides all that sodium and stuff will just make me feel icky for the rest of the day, so it’s my leftover’s for lunch. Spend part of my lunch hour cruising my favorite on-line auction site. Ohhhhhh….. I really want THAT! …. Hmmmm… the high bid is only at $60, I could go to $80. STOP!! No! No emotional spending young lady! Step away from the keyboard! I get a NS Day! Redhawk calls again that night and we have more of a “real” conversation. Great, now I am not able to get to sleep.
· Wednesday: Still feeling off balance I ponder whether I want to go shopping for new shoes tonight – do I NEED new shoes or am I just trying to fill an ache? NOPE – no shoe store, still no cash in wallet – I kind of like that, harder to impulse buy when you have to use a debit card. But I do want a treat – so I pick up Chinese for dinner. That’s okay, I have not had an Eat Out day in almost a month (no counting my mini-vacation). And look, I get a dinner and at least two lunches out of it so Yeah for Me! Feeling more in control of my own choices I sleep better that night.
My plans for the weekend. Well, the office is closed tomorrow (insert manic happy dance icon here) however that does not mean I am not working. I am chairman of my quilt guild’s booth at the Chelmsford City Fair for the 3rd and 4th. I have been coordinating volunteers and supplies and equipment for weeks. I will be there from 4:00 – 11:00 pm on Friday, and 7:00 am – 4:00 pm on Saturday. Then probably home to collapse on the couch, take a nap and hopefully wake up in time to watch the Pops concert and Fireworks from the Esplanade on Channel 4. Although, if it actually manages to NOT rain here AGAIN!!!! I will tape the Pops and walk the half mile to stand on the School Street Bridge and watch the fireworks set off over the Merrimack River.

Right now it is POURING BUCKETS, thunder is rumbling and the sound of rain pounding on the building roof is louder than the background hum of the office. I think there are only about 40 people in the entire building today.


********************************

Honeylioness
Message #118
07/02/09 10:30 AM

I have been reading about what other people have paid for their homes and their payments and don't know whether to be frog green with envy over the prices or just about my own numbers.

I know that a lot of it has to do with regionality and that I live in one of the higher COL areas of the country but yeesh. I purchased my townhouse in September 2001 - yep, made the offer just a week before 9/11. The one positive that came from that was interest rates fell hard and I wound up locking in at almost 2 points lower than when I made the offer.

My unit is on an end of a section and a corner - because of this odd configuration I lose garage space but gain studio space instead along with a deeded parking space outside. Also, my unit has a HUGE walk in pantry that none of the others do, and is almost 2 feet wider than my neighbors, add to this three walls that have windows and I think it is the best one in the complex. There is approximately 1700 square feet of living space for which I paid $121K. I did re-finance a few years ago to lower my rate to 6 1/8% on a 30 year fixed - with escrow my monthly payment is $1,139.

I know for many people this would seem really high. However here in Massachusetts it is hard to even find a two bedroom apartment for under $1,000 a month.

[Honeylioness]

SES_Books - 07/13/09 06:24 PM

Teh mom--You are right. Who is a "have" and who is a "have not?" I consider myself very comfortably middle class (by some standards upper middle class) but I come no where near the $100K or $200K that many are using to define middle class. But if I use the median (50% above and 50% below) income of $45K, I was there before I retired, i guess now I am solidly lower middle class. And sinking as time goes by, i would suppose. I think i read that there are* only 4% of the population making above $200K, (and between $100K and 200K is another 14%) so that makes the rest of us a growing majority. When mega inflation hits in two or three years, the spread will be even more noticeable. It is scary to think about. What is really scary is that all these financial people who bring in $500K to a million or more THINK they are middle class. This is a depressing topic to think about.

*SHOULD THIS BE IS (FOR A SINGLE GROUP) OR ARE (FOR MANY PERCENTAGES)


phitigirl - 07/13/09 07:25 PM

SES - At the risk of contradicting everything my english teacher ever taught me, I do believe the correct grammer is "is". But it's been awhile since high school, so I could be wrong.


nitza19 - 07/13/09 07:41 PM

SES - it sounded like an "is" to me. Because you said "population" which is a collective singular. Like "half of the class IS going" vs. "half of the boys ARE" going. "4% of the population IS going" vs. "4% of the people ARE going." I wouldn't bet on my memory, though


Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 07/13/09 07:42 PM

SES_, "is" would be correct as the collective noun, "population" in this context, is the equivalent of "herd," "group" or "team." Collective nouns are deemed to be "third person singular." However, I would defer to Red_ as editor-in-chief or Honey


SES_Books - 07/13/09 09:29 PM

To all the grammarians out there I too agree that it sounds like I should have used is due to population being a collective noun. Then i realized 4% is the noun I needed to worry about (population is the subject of a preposition ~so not to consider. I guess my question is this--is 4% a collective amount or "how many" % points where the 4 would be a adjective of quantity?

I need smart/red/honey/gldn to tell me definitively or I will stew about this. To think 6 months I was proofing GED essays, college apps and job apps on an almost daily basis. I guess it is true, the mind is the first to go! Isn't this a great topic for a frugality board. At least it doesn't cost anything but a few under used brain cells.


Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 07/13/09 09:54 PM

SES_, Ahhhhhhh! SES_, good point! Okay... hmm...is it possible that both is and are are correct? If one assumed 4%" is a sum of quantity, i.e. more than one then are is correct. However, if one assumed that the true antecedent is those people who comprise the four percent as in a clear cut group of this four percent, then is is correct. Such fun! I am not the debating type, but the question is a fun one indeed. Red_! Where are you?


SES_Books - 07/13/09 10:15 PM

Sharing-- I tend to think either is OK, but I want to know for sure which most OK. I'm a little "nutso" about things like this at times. This is when my inner "nerd" pops out. I guess I need a mathematical/financial editor to chime in.


Honeylioness - 07/14/09 08:25 AM

I think I read that there are *only 4% of the population making above $200K, (and between $100K and 200K is another 14%) so that makes the rest of us a growing majority. *SHOULD THIS BE IS (FOR A SINGLE GROUP) OR ARE (FOR MANY PERCENTAGES)

I pulled out an old grammar book and then checked a more recent source to be sure things had not changed - because as we should all know, language is a fluid medium, and here is what I found.

All those who said that the proper word was “is” when referring to a percentage of the population are correct. As “population” is a collective noun. And an identified section of that population who are performing an action in tandem would then become their own singular unit.

From the source:

A collective noun is a single thing. That thing, however, is made up of more than one thing or person. You cannot have a committee, team, or family of one; you need at least two people who compose the unit.

Because people behave as both herd animals and solitary creatures, collective nouns can be either singular or plural, depending on context. In writing, this double status often causes agreement errors. How do you tell if a collective noun is singular or plural? What verbs and pronouns do you use with the collective noun?

Here is the key: Imagine a flock of pigeons pecking at birdseed on the ground. Suddenly, a cat races out of the bushes. What do the pigeons do? They fly off as a unit in an attempt to escape the predator, wheeling through the sky in the same direction.

People often behave in the same manner, doing one thing in unison with the other members of their group. When these people are part of a collective noun, that noun becomes singular and requires singular verbs and pronouns.

Of course, you can always just avoid the entire angst over singular or possessive verbs and pronouns by writing the same statement this way "...only 4% of the population makes above $200K..."

SES - I hope you can let go of your angst now

[Honeylioness]

15 July 2009

wvugurl, Looks like a beautiful day ahead of us, but alas, I'm still Sneezy. Or am I Dopey. My take on the Seven Dwarfs was that it was an allergy testing center for a major pharma, hehe.

Oh no Sharing - you should KNOW by now how dangerous such a comment is .... it turns my little twisted brain down odd and scary pathways . And here is today's ................


From the files of Dr. W.I. Zard

• Bashful: In an effort to better handle his Social Anxiety Disorder the patient is now in counseling and on a regimen of Cymbalta.
  
• Doc: After years and years of being the authority figure for the other six, subject is now taking Amitiza for his Chronic Idiopathic Constipation.
  
• Dopey: Initially diagnosed as “slow”, this dwarf has more recently been identified as Autistic with savant tendencies. The group has elected to forego prescription drugs in favor of a controlled diet and supervised environment. Counseling is recommended to offset the associate self esteem issues from his unfortunate name.
  
• Grumpy and Happy: Recent genetic analysis has shown that the two are actually Monochorionic Twins. However due to a spell cast by the late Evil Queen’s grandmother on their mother the twins were not only born three months apart, but each was cursed to live at either end of the spectrum of Manic Bipolar Disorder. One being always Manic (Happy) and the other chronically depressed (Grumpy). Both are taking Lithium Carbonate while a reversal of the old curse is sought.
  
• Sleepy: Exhibiting all the classic traits of Narcolepsy the patient has shown a marked improvement in alertness and function since beginning treatment with Vyvanse.
  
• Sneezy: Severe environmental and seasonal allergies have been somewhat alleviated with the removal of allergen collectors, such as rugs and heavy drapes from the patient’s living quarters. Treatment with both prescription and OTC drugs for symptoms continues to be the best course of therapy.

************************

Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 07/15/09 04:49 PM

Honey, Laughed my head off! And now...just have to ask for your take on Snow White! I still think I'm Dopey + Sneezy, haha!

****************************


Well Sharing, it took a bit of digging but I was able, for a price, to get a hold of some session notes on the princess in question.

Excerpted from various session notes of Dr. Mack N Tosh, USDA

* Subject presents herself as the daughter of a King and his deceased Queen. Having lost her mother in infancy she was raised primarily by Nannies and Staff. An emotionally unavailable father and self-centered step mother have limited her ability to form appropriate attachments to parental figures - thus she has learned to self-parent however with mixed results.

* During a recent session patient claims to have seen and heard her step-mother "talking" to a looking glass, and that the object "responded". Recommend further evaluation to determine whether any psychosis is present.

* Patient missed her last eight appointments. Her story is that her step mother is jealous of her and ordered the King's Huntsman to take her into the woods on a ruse and then murder her - bringing back her heart as proof. We spent a lot of time examining whether this is the truth or a perception that may have arisen from her feeling as though she must compete with her step-mother for the attention and affection of a pre-occupied father.

She reports that unable to return to her home she has taken refuge in a cottage owned by seven small men. Further probing revealed the "men" are not just small in stature but are actually dwarfs. Having obtained their names I feel it my duty to do a background search on these individuals. Disturbing is the information that one seems verbally abusive, one is rather mentally challenged and they all sleep together in the same room. I urged her to return home and speak to her father but she claims to be happier being the unpaid housekeeper for these dwarfs. We need to address further her self esteem issues.

* Having come up with no public records of any kind on the dwarfs I am still uneasy with her continuing residence in their home. I am concerned that the patient may be slipping into a psychosis as comments about dancing with woodland creatures, birds helping her clean and other animal related tales come more often during our discussions.

* A new "character" has emerged in the patient's odd tales of life in the forest - a man. She states that one afternoon as she was gathering nuts and berries and performing operatic duets with chickadees (note: we really need to focus on this delusion!) a man just "appeared" to provide a pitch perfect tenor-baritone to this little concert. She claims to have run off and not done more than exchange a "warm glance" with said man.

While I am pleased to see that she may indeed still be able to find a normal man of interest, indicating that she is capable of learning to form more appropriate relationships, I am concerned that she still seems to only be at ease with the dwarfs. The P.I. I retained to dig deeper into their backgrounds has learned that they seem to have an abundant supply of gemstones to use in bartering for goods - but no rational or consistent explanation as to where the come from. He is looking into robbery reports within a five shire area to see if there may be a pattern.

* Patient again missed some appointments and two very disturbing tales were told by her. The first being that she had fainted and almost suffocated to death after being too tightly laced with new corset ribbons by a passing peddler. And then soon after an old woman looking for a few coins was combing her hair when she again lost consciousness. Both times she states that the return home of the dwarfs, and their actions, are what saved her life. My concern is this is further deepening her unhealthy attachment to individuals outside her own species.

* Patient again missed her appointment.

* I have been unable to make contact with the patient for almost a year. Then this morning there was a front page story in a special edition of Kingdom Gazette:

The Resurrection of a Princess

Dateline: Road from the western forest

We learned today of a remarkable ending to the story of a Princess no-one even knew was missing. Princess Snow White disappeared from the palace more than two years ago, however the public was never told. A spokesman for the King said they were told by the Queen that the Princess had gone to a finishing school for young royalty several hundred miles away.

Around the same time her long-time Nanny also left the employ of the King to retire and live with her family across the sea. We have been unable to locate Ms. Wharm Huggs to confirm this.

Whether the Princess left, fled or ran away is still unconfirmed at this time. However what we do know is remarkable enough. She has been residing deep within the Western Hunting Forest at the home of seven dwarfs. We have been able to confirm through a confidential informant that the dwarfs are the owners of Stinken Riche, Inc. The largest producer and wholesaler of gems in the Northern Hemisphere. The partners have a reported combined net worth of more than $35 billion and have served by appointment to the royal household for more than 400 years.

While living in the dwarfs modest cottage the Princess was approached by a peddler who offered her a basket of apples. However upon tasting one of the fruit the Princess fell lifeless to the ground where her benefactors discovered her that evening. Doc, a spokesman for the group, told us that they were so upset by this event, and out of their deep affection for the Princess they constructed a special coffin of crystal at which they took turns keeping vigil. Locals in the area had been noting for some time an odd parade of forest creatures making regular trips to raid their gardens for flowers, but the initial reports had been dismissed as a result of too much indulgence in hard cider.

When questioned about the logistical and sanity considerations of preserving a dead body for that long without noticeable decay Doc told us of a new device the company was soon to file patents on that would chill flesh for extended periods of time to delay deterioration. They are calling the process "refrigeration" and say the toughest challenge still ahead is working out how to supply the needed power source to homes - something called "electricity". The complete story of this appears on page 12.

Sometime last week Prince Noname from Kingdom Un-nohn was passing through the forest and came upon this shrine to the young Princess. Here the stories conflict as to what happened next. Some claim the Prince, so moved by her beauty and the tragedy of her death, kissed her gently upon the lips at which point she woke up. Other sources say that the Prince commandeered the device she was laying in and had his men load it onto a wagon to take to his castle for further study. During that journey a large rut in the road jostled the coffin so violently that the piece of the apple which had lodged in the girl's throat was dislodged and she gasped and began breathing again. (Editors note: We find the second scenario much more plausible .... and hygienic)

Learning of the girl's identity the Prince took her back to his castle before contacting her father - whether for a ransom or a dowry no one will confirm.

As of this writing a Royal Wedding is scheduled for this summer.

[Honeylioness]

15 July 2009

smt79 - A few days late but Welcome!! We may seem as though we wander through a morass of non-money subjects - but building relationships and support is part of how we learn to trust each other - so that when the others have to dish out some really Tough Love about a person's finances it can be received in the supportive tone in which it is always meant.

MuddyJeepGirl - 07/15/09 09:55 AM
Haha -just took a quiz on 43Things.com - and got:
You are an Extroverted Money Managing Tree Hugger

MuddyJeep - can you tell I am not having a good time at work lately? Yes I took the test and got:

You are an Extroverted Money Managing Believer
0.28% of the 176505 people who have taken this quiz are like you.

RME - yeah right!!!! If I am an extrovert then the big House in D.C. is purple!!!!

And speaking of having very little to do lately - this is in honor of R2B2. I did a bit of assembling of the TT stories.

Sharing, sorry this comment is late. Regarding your question of Monday:

Angel, I'm going to bet you a cookie that the Harley does have something to do with the perception of added risk re: insurance. Theft of the bike would be one of the items. As well, watch for insurance of all sorts to grab premia...the actuaries who forecast future risk, may expect in hard times, theft, vandalism, lawsuits increase. Living in MI...I'm guessing there is a hazard premium starting to creep in for hard hit regions. Just a guess, though.

Honey, MrsL, Am I on the right track, here? I do know that insurance is a collective, if ever. For example, here in Ontario, after Hurricane Katrina our premia rose because "risk is shared throughout the system" was the answer. Fair enough. Oddly though, rates just don't seem to go back down! Funny about that!

I was told that by a company as well - that they have to look at their outflow overall in determining rates. While I understand about local and specific events it does frost my buns when my rates increase because of an event or action miles and miles away.

For example: Two years ago we had record river levels in the Merrimack Valley and quite a few people suffered incredible damage and losses - most of which it turns out had no insurance at all. In this case I can understand why anyone trying to buy flood insurance is going to pay more than I do, since I bought mine in 2001.

However, when some people continue to re-build/replace flood or hurricane destroyed homes 3 and 4 times with the same bad design and no regard for the fact that they live 15 FEET FROM THE WATER!!!!! And DUH! there is beach erosion every year and you should either be on stilts or get back off the sand .... then not only do I think they should NOT be able to get insurance again, but why the H3LL do I have to pay an increased premium for their hubris and or stupidity???

Okay, off my soapbox

[Honeylioness]

Honeylioness - 07/20/09 01:59 PM

dakota - I am in complete agreement with you about your husband needing to make the effort to form a bond with his son. My father did not make the effort with me at all until I was 13, because he did not "understand" girls. As a result it has only been in the last four years or so that he and I have even begun to have what I consider a more healthy father-daughter relationship. And he has come to realize just how much he robbed me, and himself, by ignoring this for so long.

jillbean - I am in complete agreement with 3cats. You NEED a break, even if for an hour. If you find it too difficult to justify it for yourself, then consider those you live with. We all need a space and time to just vent, yell, cry - whatever. Taking that time for yourself is NOT selfish or "bad". It is necessary to maintain your sanity and ability to deal with all the challenges you and the family are going through. And isn't it better to let off that steam in a quiet safe place rather than the middle of the living room where the little ones won't be able to understand or process that Mom is just having a bad day?

You are also NOT to feel guilty!!! And if I have to drive out there and stand over you until this sinks in ... well, don't bet against it young lady!!! And if you MUST find a way to balance the dollar in gas you would spend to drive to a secluded area, crank up the radio and just scream/cry out any/all frustrations .... then you are not allowed a cigarette the rest of the day.

Sharing ... GRRRRRRR .... You also are NOT to feel bad for "dumping" as you put it ... for crying out loud woman!!! Give us a chance to support YOU Once in a while. *giving you my best attempt at the stern-parochial-school-nun look*

*Dragging over my specially constructed four foot high platform covered in green velvet with gold braid and purple fringe to climb upon*

Ahemmmmm .... Ladies, if I may have your attention for a moment.

There are many wonderful things about being blessed to be born a woman, especially in Western society at this time in history.

* We have the right to earn and control our own money
* We have the right to own property in our name
* In cases of divorce we not longer must surrender our children to the husband because they are his "property"
* We are entrusted with the amazing process of gestation and birth
* We can vote, swear, drink, love who we choose, drive a car and voice our opinions without fear of political or criminal reprisals
* We are the ones even the meanest football linebacker waves to when the cameras are on (I mean honestly, when is the last time you saw a 6'6" 300 pound man wave with a goofy grin and say "Hi Dad" ?)

Then WHY??

* Why do we not take as good care of ourselves as we do everyone around us?
* Why do we do without sleep, doctor's visits or even a shower so that someone else can have them?
* Why do we minimize our own needs to vent and cry and just run away for an hour or two?
* Why do we accept feeling guilty for being human?
* Why can't we say "Sorry - Guess you better tell them you messed up" when a child comes to us at 10:oo pm with "oh yeah Mom? I forgot to tell you but I have to bring 30 gluten-free cupcakes to school tomorrow". But instead will stay up until 2:00 am so the kid is not embarrassed?
* Why do we apologize for sharing our bad feelings and bad news with our friends because we don't want to "bother" them. Trust me, your real friends will let you know when you have moved from "venting" to "stuck in a rut whining"

Super Woman is a myth ladies, dreamed up by Madison Avenue to sell perfume (remember En Joli?). Women who tried to Do It All usually succeeded in staging rather spectacular "crash-n-burns" which may or may not have been accompanied by substance abuse or hospitalization.

I say we learn to embrace our inner "male" qualities and thereby find TRUE social equality!!!!!

* Let's learn to spend the entire afternoon on the couch in our underwear watching for the 20th time Bridge Over the River Kwai.
* Develop that selective hearing that can receive "dinner is ready" but filters into white noise the words "take out the trash"
* Learn when "close" is good enough. Frankly I would be very uneasy with anyone coming into my house who chose to eat off the floor instead of at the table like a person.
* Unless the health department is coming up the walkway wearing HazMat suits - our homes are probably clean enough. Real people never live in House Beautiful. Take another look at the pictures - ever see even ONE electrical cord? or pair of socks? or even a cat hair? They strip the rooms of the owner's collection of stale pizza crusts before the photo shoot starts. I mean really - who only has a bowl of apples posed on their counter top? Show me the real workings of that kitchen - the drawer with all the take out menus.
* Learn to appreciate the marvel that is dust. No - really. Did you know that one of the components of dust is meteor dust? As they pass through our atmosphere and evaporate they leave behind small amount so dust particles that fall to earth. So you have a bit of "star dust" under your stove. I also remember an article several years ago that showed that propagating seeds in a medium including moistened house dust increased the growth rate exponentially
* And finally - let's start practicing now so that come Christmas we can - with skill and pride - be able to belch the chorus of "Frosty the Snowman"


*************************************

3catslady - 07/20/09 02:37 PM

Honey; what about baby-doll pj's. I do that every day I don't work. I don't watch tv, but I listen to radio and when the next door have gone away, I turn it up as loud as I can and sing. I don't have a beer, but I have a birch beer and see how loud I can belch and then laugh when I do belch. You are right, no kid ever died because the room wasn't cleaned or were served toast on the same plate they were served toast on the day before. The crumbs were brushed off and the plate was put back up in the cupboard or in the dish drainer. Why make more work for yourself than you have to.

I hope I didn't gross anybody out, but I have gotten lazy in my old age. Nobody is going to come here and do my cleaning. So as long as I stay healthy and don't go to work smelly, who cares. Now when I start to get company, yes, I will tidy up. Maybe if it someone important, I will do a cleanapalooza. But they are coming here to see me, not my house. And yes I will use clean dishes instead of the other ones.

Maybe that is why I don't have visitors.Thinking


Red2Black2011 - 07/20/09 02:48 PM

Honey: You are so right. We should learn to channel our inner "male" but then we get called B!tch. I can spend the entire afternoon tv show marathons and I do appreciate Dust to the point I think it should pay rent. So I do have some "male" qualities. I guess I have to work harder to accomplish the rest.

3cats: LOL.


mrslynch - 07/20/09 08:33 PM

honey--awesome list! you never cease to amaze me with what comes out of your brain.


startsmart - 07/20/09 09:25 PM

# We have the right to earn and control our own money
# We have the right to own property in our name
# We can vote, swear, drink, love who we choose, drive a car and voice our opinions without fear of political or criminal reprisals

Love this, the mom stuff isn't applicable to me but I like that I do earn and control my own money.

* Why do we not take as good care of ourselves as we do everyone around us?
* Why do we do without sleep, doctor's visits or even a shower so that someone else can have them?
* Why do we minimize our own needs to vent and cry and just run away for an hour or two?
* Why do we accept feeling guilty for being human?

Guilty... very guilty here. Although my not going to the doctor has more to do with my company's horrible time off policy than taking care of anyone else.

Super Woman is a myth ladies, dreamed up by Madison Avenue to sell perfume (remember En Joli?). Women who tried to Do It All usually succeeded in staging rather spectacular "crash-n-burns" which may or may not have been accompanied by substance abuse or hospitalization.

I'm just imagining a hospital with only superheroes for patients... sublime. I will NOT make this new writing project number 47. Will not...


Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 07/21/09 12:03 AM

Honey, Great post. My gosh, you pour heart and soul into your responses to us all. You have a special role. I think you are our "wise lady." I think that you are Shakespeare's Portia in Merchant of Venice.


nitza19 - 07/21/09 02:17 AM

Honey2 [/b]- I LOVED your "well then why don't we..." post. You have hit the nail right on the head there, woman. We need to treat ourselves at least half as well as we treat everyone else we take care of!

[Honeylioness]

Saving4Norway - 07/20/09 01:23 AM


13/15 NSDs, 6/10 CSDs, 11/20 NEO, 100% No fun

I'm having what I guess you could describe as growing pains so I'm going to whine a bit. In my past (up until 2 months ago) I bought pretty much what ever I wanted, within reason. I own easily 40 pairs of shoes, 15 purses, an IKEA shelving system full of fabric, and anything else that I ever saw that was less than, oh, about $150. It was normal to pay off my AmEx every month to the tune of $700-1200 which was all recreational or discretionary spending. I've always been responsible with my money, ccs always paid in full, car payments always doubled, etc. I know, I'm not making myself sound very sympathetic so far. And I bet a few of you have already called me a "bee-otch". I'm OK with that b/c I admit I have been dealt a pretty darn good hand of financial cards in my life.

My problem- I'm still making $1000 payments on our last vehicle and I don't want to waiver from that b/c I can see the light at the end of the tunnel; I'll be paid off in Feb '10. But, I've also issued myself a huge challenge to save $1000 every month. I deposit it into my saving acct at the beginning of the month and try try try not to borrow it back before the end of the month. I was able to do this for June and so far so good in July but it HURTS! (This is where I get pathetic.) I don't have any money to spend! Collecting NSDs are pretty easy b/c I can't afford anything! Sure, there is nothing I need but that's not the point that's sinking in my head. It's like when I joined Weight Watchers. I went from thinking about eating all the time to thinking about wanting to eat all the time. It's like I still have an obsession to food, it's just that I'm obsessed with what I can't have. I don't need to go to Starbucks, I make my coffee at home and like it. The part that ki.lls me is that I know I CAN'T go to Starbucks b/c I'd have to transfer money from savings to checking and admit defeat but that makes me feel even more deprived!!! Yep, that hit the nail on the head, my pains are from a feeling of being deprived. Bingo.

Now don't go suggesting that I need to ease up on my savings goal. Like I've already said, there is nothing I truly need. But, my question is, how many months have to go by before this agony subsides and this state of spending (or not spending) becomes "normal" feeling??


3catslady - 07/20/09 02:02 AM

Saving; It depends on what your definition of normal is. For me normal spending feeling is "okay it is in the budget so I can get it." If it isn't in the budget I wait until I have enough change to wrap and get it. I don't feel deprived because I know I will get it eventually. Does that make sense? After awhile, the feeling that I want it goes away and I don't miss it. I've been in this thread since January and right now I don't want to go shopping. I really hate to go. But I need food, the cats need litter and food and I need tp and laundry supplies. These are my basic needs right now. My hang-up right now is Annie's Attic. THEY HAVE CANDLEWICKING and I haven't been able to find that any where around here. I have purchased the 3 pillows that they had and that is all they have so I am done with that. I will not get any more because I made a pact with myself that I will finish everything I have started, kits for and all else. I am not allowed to buy anything until I am out of everything. I may change this because I don't have any batting for my quilts but, I think Mom has some stored away. If not that is what I will buy until I get my last car payment paid and at least $7500 in savings for EF and $750 for car repairs. I have the mortgage to pay and the regular monthly bills but that is all. Then I will readjust my budget to allow purchases.

If this doesn't make sense, that is okay, because I am tired and just typing away. Tomorrow I may have a better fell of what I said. I am going to bed. Hope every one is home and relaxing.


Honeylioness - 07/20/09 10:45 AM

Saving4Norway - I wanted to address your question about the "growing pains". Studies have shown that it takes the average person 30 days of doing a new thing everyday before it becomes a habit. For example, if you keep a note on your bathroom mirror that says "floss" and you do it every single night for 30 days, your brain will have transformed this task into a habit.

It is a similar thing with money. You had a prior "habit" of recreational spending which you were fortunate to be able to pay off every month. I think the key for you here is a two pronged strategy.

1) Complete denial, whether in finances of dieting, is rarely successful. Why not put $20 in your wallet each month with a post-in note on it that says "Starbucks". Or even put it into a small envelope. Then when you get the urge to swing in for a latte you can ask yourself "Do I really WANT this coffee at this time .. or is this just a habit? Perhaps I want to save it for a Saturday morning treat when I can relax and really enjoy it". If we are fortunate to HAVE discretionary income there is nothing wrong in spending it ... just try to spend it more Mindfully.

2) What if you gave yourself "permission" to take no more than $50 a month from savings? Not to say you will, but knowing the option is there can relieve the no-spending anxiety I think you are feeling. Then before you move the money out of savings consider what you are saving for. A trip? A house? An emergency fund? The trick I think is to change how you see the money. Instead of thinking about the money in savings as somehow "off limits" to you - try seeing it as a big feather mattress that is growing slowly but surely to cushion you when you slip and fall. Or if you are perhaps saving for a trip try this - if you want to take $50 our for a new purse think "Hmmmm, I can either have this purse now or this is half a day of a rental car exploring castles in Scotland." If you have a goal for the money it is easier to not feel as though saving it is a "punishment".


Saving4Norway - 07/20/09 03:49 PM

Thanks so much for allowing me to vent/whine last night. After spending the week on vacation with my family (Stress trigger?? Duh!) where they spent money like I used to, I was jealous and feeling especially deprived. (Of course I'm half-way to having the money for the family trip to Norway and they haven't started.)

Gin, I appreciate your advice to focus on what I have and what I can do with it. I'm up to my eyeballs in fabric and could easily spend my free time sewing up a storm. Not quite sure what's holding me back from doing so... maybe spending too much time reading this MB?

3Cats, you said you've been on this thread since January and now you don't have that burning desire to spend. I admire that! I want to follow in your footsteps but hopefully it won't take 6 months. I don't possess that kind of willpower. Yet.

Sharing, even when I find things that I consider are a good value, i.e. my favorite eye shadow on clearance for $4.72 reg $15, I don't even have the loose change to spend on it. And do I really need it? Of course not. I feel ridiculous that I go home and essentially pout. I want to grow out of these childish responses!!!

Honey, I appreciate the reminder that it takes 30 days to make a new habit. I knew that but it didn't occur to me in this situation. I do have a goal for saving the money, that's why I'm so intent not to cave and borrow back the money I'm saving at the beginning of each month. I think I'll embrace your $20 cash idea. I have a little tiny coin purse that I can hide away and only take it out to avoid meltdowns. I have to admit that in the past I've snootily looked down on people who "had" to work with cash that way because they were too "weak" to exercise restraint. Got BBQ sauce? I need to eat those words! (light bulb blinks on) Now I get that it's an effective strategy that smarties choose to use conquer their past issues!!!

[Honeylioness]

Honeylioness - 07/22/09 10:35 AM

nitza - a few thoughts about ways your mom can be more a part of the ceremony.

Friends of mine had BOTH parents escort the bride and the groom down the aisle - one on each arm. And they revised the wording slightly so the minister asked each set of parents "Do you give your blessing to the marriage of this man/woman to your daughter/son?". I liked that - because as so very traditional as I am ... I am not sure how I feel about being "given away" like a raffled ham. They also had the two sets of parents leave in pairs after the bride and groom and before the wedding party. His mom with her dad and vice versa.

For the first dance - perhaps you and your father can share the floor with the groom and his mother ... then switch parents to start the second dance.

startsmart - yes "mom" I paid all my bills over the weekend. And somehow I still have money left over. This always makes me nervous as I ponder what I probably have forgotten to pay

SES - I am joining you in shrugging off July also. I have a pile of slips of paper but since they seem not to be entering themselves into my spreadsheet I have no freakin' idea of spend days this month. I want a Mulligan.

Sharing - glad to hear that not only did you get back home safe and sound, but that your condo saga is almost over.

Thanks also for the offer of helping with my depression comment last week. Unfortunately I know from long experience that I just have to try my best to ride it out. And yes - I am very familiar with the signs that it is getting to where I cannot handle it myself so no worries. Not there yet. A lot of it has to do with Redhawk I know - and the lack of closure or communication.

However, I have taken steps to get out of the house and around people for a bit. This weekend is the Lowell Folk Festival (((perhaps a certain Muddy female might be coming up???))) and I am working as a volunteer Friday night and Sunday afternoon. So I won't be able to hibernate and isolate for at least a bit this weekend.


$80,000 - what struck me is that it is the context of that debt that usually determines my gut reaction. (warning - extreme sarcasm ahead)

- Student Loans: What - you were too good for state college? Hmmm ... well I would recommend either becoming the next computer wonder-kid or join one of the Teacher programs that will let you work and get a part of your loan forgiven. Oh ... this is only a portion of what your degree in medicine cost and you are going to go work for Doctors Without Borders? Nevermind ... nice job!

- Vehicle Loans: You are kidding right? You had to get the Hummer because of all the impassable terrain between your subdivision and the mall? And the boat because the one weekend a year you actually get to a body of water you just HAVE to have your own ride? And of course there is the Jaguar which you need during the summer because well - the Hummer doesn't come as a convertible.

- Credit Cards: I'm sorry ... did you say eighty THOUSAND?? For what??? I don't see any jewelry that needs to be insured by Lloyds. Tell me again how you NEEDED a silk designer shirt for $500. Did you realize that with interest by the time you pay that thing off it will cost you upwards of $1,000. No one piece of clothing is worth that - I don't care whose name is on it. And did it not occur to you that paying your utilty and grocery bills with credit that you cannot pay off each month is MAYBE a sign that you are in WAYYYYYYYYYY over your head???

- Medical Bills: wow, I am so sorry to hear you are liable for this amount but I am so glad you are here and better and I will help and support you in anyway I can.

- Mortgage Balance: Way to Go!! Wow, you are almost there It must feel good to know there are only a couple more years of payments to go.

[Honeylioness]

Are people saving more, seriously?

MP Dunleavey - 07/24/09 10:40 AM

I just saw a survey by Pricegrabber.com, showing that:

* 90% of consumers say they'll continue to use money-saving strategies even when Visa starts working again--I mean, when the economy improves.

*67% said they are making a real effort to cut back now (as opposed to 57% in January).

I don't know. I mean, it's heartening to think that people have gotten a wake-up call or a reality check--and I'm definitely saving more and more aggressively in the last year (oops! since March, when I joined the WIR Savers!)--but what about you guys. What are you seeing or hearing among friends/family?


LilMegs - 07/24/09 10:59 AM

I know I am saving more since the first of they year but the economy really did not play a part in that. I realized a while ago that saving is a need, not a want. All of the non-savers I have known for years are still not saving so I don't see much change on their part. I had hoped the current state of things would motivate them, but no such luck. I hope they don't lose their jobs!


noclue1- 07/24/09 11:39 AM

when Visa starts working again--I mean, when the economy improves

You made me laugh. Too funny.

As far as saving more, I've been trying for a while, but increased food costs, higher utility costs, higher medical/medicine costs, all bite into the ever smaller paycut driven income.It seems that many of us are bending over backward to lower our cost of living, but it only serves to keep us afloat instead of allowing us to get ahead.

chicg - 07/24/09 11:47 AM

I'm saving more, paying debt more aggressively, spending less, but as already mentioned, that began in 2007 when I got serious about paying down my debts and learning to live within my means. The downfall of the economy has only made me worry more about job loss and not being prepared enough financially for that. maybe the economy helps me realize the need to stick to my plan, but spending less is engrained in me now so even when I'm out of debt I won't go back to old habits, give in to a new booming economy, and I realize the need to save more so I'll always be a saver. I haven't noticed that much of a change in spending/saving from my friends. I feel like I'm the only one in the group that is concerned and I know some of them have a decent chunck of debt.


luckytobeme - 07/24/09 11:51 AM

I have been saving to buy new furniture. The 15 year old stuff just looks sad... Instead, I will put the $20k in a short term CD to wait out the economy.


3jsmom31 - 07/24/09 12:06 PM

I am buying less and really focusing on debt, but have been doing that for a good while. I want a larger EF now, though. Before a couple thousand seemed like plenty. Now, not so much. My mom always told me that we have a debt comfort level, and I never really replied or questioned it, but she said it again last year and I said "Mom, any debt should be uncomfortable and I plan to get this all paid off ASAP." At that time, I thought she was trying to get me to spend. Well, now she is doing her best to do the same, so that was a big shift. She is working on debt payoff and savings, and I am so happy for her. I am also very glad to have a plan to become and stay debt-free!!! I hope never to backslide, so I hang out here to keep me on the right track.

I think I have noticed a shift in how people spend, they are more concerned about what they buy. At Walzilla Acres, I notice a lot of carts with little in them. Instead of KUWJ, it is almost like bad to have overbought, lol. That is a neat change. Competitive frugality. Shamey shamey on you for the big-screen, lol. Even wealthy people have tightened the purse strings. I wonder if it will last when the Visa is back in order. I know it will for us, but I don't know about "at large".


alynotfromcali - 07/24/09 12:22 PM

I know a lot of people who are concerned about the economy and effected by it. I'm not sure about people saving instead of spending and I feel that people are certainly still spending on stuff they don't neseccarily need. I'm a great example in that while we are saving more we still eat out and I'm still paying for Weight Watchers. We're still planning to visit family over Thanksgiving and Christmas. The malls are still full of people each weekend and the restaurants are still boasting a 30 min wait time. (But then, we're in Los Angeles, cause of half the problem)I'm sure saving is on people's minds, but I'm sure the stress of this recession makes it a very difficult time to start savings when it's something you aren't used to doing.


jestjack - 07/24/09 01:00 PM

I don't know if folks are REALLY saving. As a landlord I get mixed messages. I hear a lot whining BUT still see a lot of "pizza deliveries" and "carryout". In this neck of the woods a decent pizza is usually about 15-$20...no bargain in my book. I have continued to "tighten up" repairing things instead of replacing....buying used instead of new...always looking for bargains. Just had free slice of pizza for lunch today from a coupon in the paper.


Sabrina_66 - 07/24/09 01:59 PM

Recent government statics show that people are reducing debt and saving more. I think many people got a wake-up call that having loads of debt and no savings puts them and their families in a very preciarous position. I have increased my retirement and other savings. Whether or not the rise in the savings rate will be a lasting phenomen remains to be seen.

My feeling is that savings will be more of a habit since relying on home equity, other lines of credit, and the stock market as wealth building tools has shown to be an iffy way to build security. An article about the rise in the personal savings rate can be found here: www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-consumer-credit9-2009jul09,0,991271.story


MeginPhilly - 07/24/09 02:33 PM

I live in a fairly affluent median COLA. There have been layoffs, but most people seem insulated (or just aren't acknowledging) I see a lot of people doing many short term, small, "band aid" fixes or tasks almost out of societal pressure to do so. ie: a family member recently financed a whole house worth of furniture, but she is growing veggies from seed to "save $". Neighbors went out and bought two new hybrids for their 17 year old twins to "cash in on the tax savings". Lots of SAH Friends and family hosting direct sales parties, "to make extra cash" but then spending all of their earnings at the party on product.

I think it is more of the "in style" thing to do. When it was fashionable to keep up with the joneses, these people consumed. When it was a sin to eat carbs, they obstained. When being "green" was in vogue; there were an awful lot of hybrids purchased, recycling bins lining the streets and compact flourescent bulb displays at local stores. Being frugal is the "thing" to be seen doing! When someone truly is in dire straights, they pack up quietly and move on.

I've counted 5-6 McMansions on my way home from work that got boarded up seemingly overnight and are now posted "bank auction" properties. The restaurants around me still seem packed Friday, Saturday, and Sunday nights. Shopping malls aren't as full as they might have otherwise been; but they aren't hurting in the way you see in some areas. Wether it is denial or that they truly have "more than enough"; I can't say. I think people are saving more, but ultimately it is like any "diet". If you don't stick with it, the short term isn't going to help.


Great Arm - 07/24/09 03:03 PM

I think the key is to define "saving"... as far as I can tell the people in my world who are cutting back are doing so because their money doesn't go as far - expenses went up (utilities/rent/gas for car/cost of food and entertainment) and the minimum payments on their cards went up. I have heard much complaining about that. I kinda suspected this would happen to them eventually even if the economy hadn't tanked. You can't keep living beyond your means for ever! They aren't really "saving anything" all their money has already been spent (debt). They are cutting back to make ends meet. I don't think they are putting more in the bank with the "savings".

Everyone I know is working (even teens) and as far as I can tell no one has taken a pay cut (maybe didn't get a raise or didn't get a big bonus - their monthy take home has stayed the same). I think many people were planning on a raise or bonus to keep the "ends meeting" and now they've got a shortfall... hence the "cutting back".

As far as I can tell the people i know with plans (financial/spending/long term goals --well they seem to have plans) are going ahead with those plans: sending kids to college, vacations, remodels, house buying, whatever was originally in the pipeline (and planned for) it's still happening. I know I've spent the money I planned to spend... I haven't held back on any planned expenses - it's been a beautiful cool summer and I'm having a great time!

I suspect that the people who are cutting back to make ends meet will go back to spending as soon as they have more money than is needed to make ends meet (the minimum payments drop or they get a raise).


MP Dunleavey - 07/25/09 04:43 PM

I think it is more of the "in style" thing to do. When it was fashionable to keep up with the joneses, these people consumed. When it was a sin to eat carbs, they obstained. When being "green" was in vogue; there were an awful lot of hybrids purchased, recycling bins lining the streets and compact flourescent bulb displays at local stores.

Being frugal is the "thing" to be seen doing! When someone truly is in dire straights, they pack up quietly and move on. I've counted 5-6 McMansions on my way home from work that got boarded up seemingly overnight and are now posted "bank auction" properties.

Hah! That's funny. Or maybe not. I think the "let's do as the neighbors do" is playing a big part. It does seem to me that some folks are saving--but many are just taking advantage of big discounts (and then growing veggies to 'save'!). In other words, it would take a lot more, or a much bigger recession, to change the way we've come to think about money in this culture. But I'm keeping my eye on it...and thanks for the LATimes piece, Sabrina-66; I'll read it!·


startsmart - 07/25/09 07:15 PM

I don't know. I mean, it's heartening to think that people have gotten a wake-up call or a reality check--and I'm definitely saving more and more aggressively in the last year (oops! since March, when I joined the WIR Savers!)--but what about you guys. What are you seeing or hearing among friends/family?

Seriously??Your post on the savers says differently. Your savings increased $335 last month (not bad) and you "borrowed" $399! So... a net decrease of $64. Sure, it's not going into debt but to me that's not aggressive savings. What are you cutting back on?


Jando_27 - 07/25/09 10:32 PM

I don't know if folks are REALLY saving. As a landlord I get mixed messages. I hear a lot whining BUT still see a lot of "pizza deliveries" and "carryout".

although, some people may have the mentality of treating themselves in small ways becuase their not doing big things anymore...renovations, vacations, new furniture/electronics, etc.


HollyM - 07/26/09 08:32 AM

At first glance it does NOT look like I have saved more: 6/30/08 check acct (all $ starts here) balance $3225 Today Balance $2370

BUT I have paid my annual home owners insurance, 6 month auto insurance AND opened a new CD w/ $10,500 Thus I have saved more on a take home of 2300-2350/month-nearly 875/month OVER and above my 401K contribution (avg 200-210/month).

Have to admit -it certainly helps that I have NO debt-no car loan, no mortgage, no outstanding cc bills.


the real C - 07/27/09 01:04 PM

I save every bit as aggressively as is usual practice of my financial habits.



Dc Metro Crab - 07/27/09 03:46 PM

I haven't changed my budget line item amounts at all, but I'm cutting back on fun spending and saving it for later just in case.

I finally reached the point where the bite of inflation doesn't feel so stealthy. My lifestyle from 10 years ago was WAY more spendy and carefree, I had more money than I knew what to do with! I've continuously cut back since then. I make twice the amount I used to, I'm spending WAY less, but life now feels tight. I realized root cause was inflation! It's REAL.

[Honeylioness]

MittenKitten - 07/30/09 11:11 AM

Also please wish keep Sharing in your thoughts, she is having a tough morning.


Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 07/30/09 01:47 PM

teh mom, sapphire, smokey, R2B2, all dear friends here...This morning, we found my beloved Nermal Kitty in the across the way neighbour's yard. No signs of trauma whatsoever and he looked peaceful. He was no spring chicken, around fifteen years old. Possibly a stroke. DD#2 spotted him. We have just come in from the back garden. He had a charmed existence and was a happy little guy. Whatever it was, was near instantaneous. So, so hard. It seems impossible, not believable that he has passed on to the Rainbow Bridge. The tears come in waves. It's a solace to know he had a great time right to the complete end. I did think he seemed to sleep very soundly in the past few days but otherwise, just a happy little orange butterball. The day is completely surreal.


Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 07/30/09 02:16 PM

3cats, sapphire, Muttley, wvugurl, phitigirl, smokey,azmom, Aww...sure do feel the love and concern. It's huge and very, very helpful on this sad day. We are having a lucid moment, DD and I. Catnip, for sure! And sapphire, 3cats, you never do stop missing dear pets. Right above me is a watercolor I did of Nermal in our former neighbours' sunflower bed, staring right at me with his guilty look! He sure loved flower beds and the great outdoors. That's one thing when you work from home and the long winters...our pets are constant companions.


Honeylioness - 07/30/09 03:10 PM

Never has a cat so sweet

Earned his right to restful sleep

Regardless of our sadness now

Many hearts do share this vow

Always to keep memories of him clear

Love always for Sharing, our friend so dear



Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 07/30/09 03:26 PM

Honey, :'Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww. That is just so, so nice. Awwwwwwwwwww. Here come the tears again, but it's just that kind of a day. That's so right. He was a real love bug, a genuine sweetie. He was the one who would sleep with his tummy on my head and his head, paws and tail draped down the sides as though I was wearing some hilarious beaver trapper's hat to bed! What a character! He loved everything and his little barely middle class existence just suited him to a "t." He was still bringing home critter prezzies even the night before last!

He was adopted at ten years of age, and when I opened the door at Pet.Smart's Cat Adoption area, he leaped right out at me and threw his front paws around my neck in a giant hug. I remember saying to him, "Well, little guy, this was not in my game plan (we were going through the awfulness of our beloved Will E. Cat dealing with cancer) but it looks like you want to adopt me!" He came home to broad fields to hunt in, the back deck to stretch out in the sun, and the following summer, a new friend, Nugget, also adopted at ten years of age. Well, everyone loves their pets with the same intensity, and here's to all our cats and dogs and all little friends who make our lives so truly, happily full. Nuggie's holding up, but believe me, he is being petted within an inch of his life. He was devoted to Nermal. It will be so hard on him.