October 2010

[Honeylioness]

Honeylioness - 10/12/10 03:13 PM

Ladies - Any prayers you can spare would be appreciated. My Aunt Sharon collapsed this morning and is in the ICU on a ventillator. My poor grandmother has already had to bury three of her daughters and a son in the last six years - I don't what she or my dad will do if they lose another child/sibling. (*note* my father is the oldest of twelve children, seven boys and five girls).


E.T.A. - I just received an update around 4:15 pm. Test show massive brain stem trauma and flat line EEG readings. Her husband asked the doctor's to keep her on the ventillator for another couple of hours until the rest of the family can get there to say good-bye. Then they are going to disconnect the machine and let her go.

I am seriously more worried about my father and grandmother at this point and ask you keep them in your prayers. His name is Rick and her's is Sybil.

Thank you.


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Honeylioness - 10/14/10 08:36 PM[/u]

My aunt - Bad news on this front. When I called to ask about services I got quite a shock. They unhooked her from all the machines - but it seems there is just enough function left in her brain stem to keep her breathing. No positive Bibinski sign, pupils are fixed and dilated. They are giving her large amounts of morphine, though they don't believe her body is feeling anything. What this means? It could take days for her breathing to finally depress enough to let her physical body pass.


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Honeylioness - 10/17/10 09:08 PM

My aunt passed away peacefully yesterday morning about 1:00 am.


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Honeylioness - 10/19/10 02:15 PM

startsmart [/b]- I hope your day today goes better. I can empathize with the family drama that can so often occur during such a time. I read my aunt's obituary today online and actually winced more than once at certain phrasing. Underlying family tensions get amplified at such a time and I will say the obit I read today is NOT going to make things better in any way, shape or form. In fact I worry for my father as I think it is going to be sheer chaos at his sister's home and services this week.

[Honeylioness]

Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/12/10 12:03 AM

SES_, Ombuds,[/b] 99% of the time, your faithful day trader friend is terrified. However, even the worst market day beats the worst teaching day. Would you believe...September marked eight years of trading. I can only say that I continue to learn, and no two days are alike. Ombuds, I still think your Citigroup trade was the trade of the century, and SES_, caution will always serve you well. BTW, lighten up FAST on gold if the GOP takes more than expected Senate seats November 2nd. A shot of fiscal responsibility will drop that gold price like a hot potato.


shanendoah - 10/12/10 11:14 AM

Sharing: Not that I want to get into a political argument with you, but can we change your line about gold prices should the republicans win back Congress to "perceived fiscal responsibility"? Our gov't budget increased more under W's reign than any President since FDR (and maybe even more than that, I don't have the facts in front of me at the moment). To be honest, I'm not certain the US has had a fiscally responsible government since before Jefferson bought "Louisiana". The difference is where/how they spend the money (not collecting money is pretty much the same as spending it).


SES_Books - 10/12/10 12:39 PM

BTW, lighten up FAST on gold if the GOP takes more than expected Senate seats November 2nd. A shot of fiscal responsibility will drop that gold price like a hot potato

"perceived fiscal responsibility... I'm not certain the US has had a fiscally responsible government since before Jefferson bought "Louisiana

I agree with both of you. My gripe is that to the congressional "powers-that-be" long term planning is deciding which lobbyist to lunch with tomorrow. I feel for the small businesses and local governments who can't plan long term because of the "shifting sands" congress creates. I understand consumer spending is a lot of the economy. But if the consumer is learning to pull back to spending less than they earn, and to save before spending on "wants" why can't the government. I don't want a paternalistic state that "takes care of me" by "spoiling" us with all of our wants right now. The people of this country have got to learn that this country is not the mighty power we once were. I like to compare the world now to that of the world in 1907. Only this time we are not the booming emerging market. Which is one reason I am investing more than most are in the developing countries. I see our country as an aging dowager demanding that things be as they always have been. I feel like the global dynamics are in the greatest flux since WWII, and we aren't seeing it.


spruby - 10/12/10 08:11 PM

SES [/b]- I agree with a lot that you say - but this "aging dowager demanding that things be as they always have been" - is the perfect description of Western Europe - massive strikes over changes in pensions (lifting minimum retirement age to 62 for example) - high systemic unemployment - multiple social issues to be addressed. The US is in better shape in many ways - but without a serious look at what we think we are entitled too - and making sure we extend a real social safety net - we can find ourselves in significant difficulties in this country.


Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/12/10 09:29 PM

shanendoah, SES_[/b], Right you are, shanen, and point well taken. It was not just this administration that has spent, spent, spent. Oh gosh, shanen, don't ever feel that I would be offended. I'm a searcher, at heart, and easily see the merits in another point of view. My DOD, who was born in Chicago, adopted fairly late in life, a Keynesian perspective. He was an accountant by profession, but an economist by, well, passion, I guess. It's funny, you know. (musing). He was raised a farm kid in an ultra-conservative Baptist mileu, very Calvinistic in work ethic, very conservative, politically. Towards the end of his life, he became almost a radical socialist, even by Canadian standards. I wonder to this day how he made the transition, but it was a complete 180 degrees from the little kid born in Chicago, a city he loved along with New Orleans where he was received basic training in WWII, close to where moneysquirrel grew up. Hmm. Guess I'll never know. Me, I just worry about everything, LOL.


Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/12/10 09:47 PM

Spruby[/b], that's it. You've hit the point right on. It's the example of Europe. Terrifies me. That's not workable. Yikes. Not long term. It's not sustainable. We've been on one form or another of European style socialism here, and when we get closest to the American model of capitalism is, hands down, when we fare the best. People want to keep the fruits of their labor. No country's wealthy are as charitable as are Americans. Hard workers and generous, pretty darned wonderful combo.


SES_Books - 10/12/10 10:36 PM

spruby-[/b]-Oh, you are so right. I can just picture an aging American dowager aping an aging European dowager, both trying desperately to be superior and retain the status quo, however bad it might be it is familiar. Once again I am seeing 1907. We never learn from history just repeat it.


SES_Books - 10/12/10 10:58 PM

Sharing-[/b]-This statement really caught my attention "No country's wealthy are as charitable as are Americans. Hard workers and generous, pretty darned wonderful combo." You are so right. But a study I recently heard about claimed middle and lower earners are pulling back on charitable actions. The study raised the question was it due to the lack of growth of the middle class income or due to lack of interest in charitable works. More of the Me-Me-Me attitude added to a seemingly declining work ethic?


Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/13/10 01:05 PM

SES_, [/b]I'm guessing those families are strapped to the gills. It's the student loans. In the 25-40 year-old households, the amount of student debt + aging cars+ plus first mortgage+ brand new babies has got to be terrifying. Charitable? I believe, just as much as before. Here's why: I see store windows filled with $1 and $2 donation "leaves", "acorns" ( money raised for shelters, breakfast programs). My guess is that $1 and $2 is affordable, but larger donations simply aren't.


shanendoah - 10/13/10 02:12 PM

charity: [/b]its a catch 22, at times when the most people need charitable help, people are the least able to give it (caveat: when the need is not based on a natural disaster). I would believe charitable giving is down because so many people are out of work. Charitable giving is one of those things can be cut from the budget without feeling it directly. Also, I'm not certain how its measured when you donate $1 or $2 or whatever at your local store. (Do they count individual donors, or is counted as coming from the store?) We give $1 for homeless animals every time we go to the pet store.

[Honeylioness]

Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/12/10 12:03 AM

SES_, Ombuds,[/b] 99% of the time, your faithful day trader friend is terrified. However, even the worst market day beats the worst teaching day. Would you believe...September marked eight years of trading. I can only say that I continue to learn, and no two days are alike. Ombuds, I still think your Citigroup trade was the trade of the century, and SES_, caution will always serve you well. BTW, lighten up FAST on gold if the GOP takes more than expected Senate seats November 2nd. A shot of fiscal responsibility will drop that gold price like a hot potato.


Angel 33 - 10/12/10 08:39 AM

BTW, lighten up FAST on gold if the GOP takes more than expected Senate seats November 2nd. A shot of fiscal responsibility will drop that gold price like a hot potato

Sharing so I should not be buying anymore gold stocks? I have a gold stock in my Roth and I just upped that contribution. I am seriously really bad at the market. I mostly just invest in ETFs that my portfolio builder recommended based on my risk tolerance. I wish I understood the stock market more. For some reason my eyes seriously glaze over when I try to learn more. Is there a good website or book you recommend?


SES_Books - 10/12/10 12:39 PM

BTW, lighten up FAST on gold if the GOP takes more than expected Senate seats November 2nd. A shot of fiscal responsibility will drop that gold price like a hot potato .... "perceived fiscal responsibility... I'm not certain the US has had a fiscally responsible government since before Jefferson bought Louisiana

I agree with both of you. My gripe is that to the congressional "powers-that-be" long term planning is deciding which lobbyist to lunch with tomorrow. I feel for the small businesses and local governments who can't plan long term because of the "shifting sands" congress creates. I understand consumer spending is a lot of the economy. But if the consumer is learning to pull back to spending less than they earn, and to save before spending on "wants" why can't the government. I don't want a paternalistic state that "takes care of me" by "spoiling" us with all of our wants right now. The people of this country have got to learn that this coutry is not the mighty power we once were. I like to compare the world now to that of the world in 1907. Only this time we are not the booming emerging market. Which is one reason I am investing more than most are in the developing countries. I see our country as an aging dowager demanding that things be as they always have been. I feel like the global dynamics are in the greatest flux since WWII, and we aren't seeng it.

Angel--don't worry about the gold portion of your Roth. You have the advantage of time. There might be a drop after the election (I'm guessing there will be, if there is a big change in the Senate) but considering the world (China and India) demand for gold you will be ahead of the game over time.

I am thinking about selling my gold before the election, waiting for the drop and then buying back in after the drop.


spruby - 10/12/10 08:11 PM

SES [/b]- I agree with a lot that you say - but this "aging dowager demanding that things be as they always have been" - is the perfect description of Western Europe - massive strikes over changes in pensions (lifting minimum retirement age to 62 for example) - high systemic unemployment - multiple social issues to be addressed. The US is in better shape in many ways - but without a serious look at what we think we are entitled too - and making sure we extend a real social safety net - we can find ourselves in significant difficulties in this country.


Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/12/10 09:29 PM

shanendoah, SES[/b]_, Right you are, shanen, and point well taken. It was not just this administration that has spent, spent, spent. Oh gosh, shanen, don't ever feel that I would be offended. I'm a searcher, at heart, and easily see the merits in another point of view. My DOD, who was born in Chicago, adopted fairly late in life, a Keynesian perspective. He was an accountant by profession, but an economist by, well, passion, I guess. It's funny, you know. (musing). He was raised a farm kid in an ultra-conservative Baptist mileu, very Calvinistic in work ethic, very conservative, politically. Towards the end of his life, he became almost a radical socialist, even by Canadian standards. I wonder to this day how he made the transistion, but it was a complete 180 degrees from the little kid born in Chicago, a city he loved along with New Orleans where he was received basic traing in WWII, close to where moneysquirrel grew up. Hmm. Guess I'll never know. Me, I just worry about everything, LOL.


SES_Books - 10/12/10 10:36 PM

spruby[/b]--Oh, you are so right. I can just picture an aging American dowager aping an aging European dowager, both trying desperately to be superior and retain the status quo, however bad it might be it is familiar. Once again I am seeing 1907. We never learn from history just repeat it.


SES_Books - 10/12/10 10:58 PM

Sharing-[/b]-This statement really caught my attention "No country's wealthy are as charitable as are Americans. Hard workers and generous, pretty darned wonderful combo." You are so right. But a study I recently heard about claimed middle and lower earners are pulling back on charitable actions. The study raised the question was it due to the lack of growth of the middle class income or due to lack of interest in charitable works. More of the Me-Me-Me attitude added to a seemingly declining work ethic?


Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/13/10 01:05 PM

SES_[/b], I'm guessing those families are strapped to the gills. It's the student loans. In the 25-40 year-old households, the amount of student debt + aging cars+ plus first mortgage+ brand new babies has got to be terrifying. Charitable? I believe, just as much as before. Here's why: I see store windows filled with $1 and $2 donation "leaves", "acorns" ( money raised for shelters, breakfast programs). My guess is that $1 and $2 is affordable, but larger donations simply aren't.


spruby - 10/13/10 07:47 PM

Charity [/b]- Americans are very charitable. But I work with distressed companies - including distressed charities. Local, county and state governments have outsourced social services to non-profits - and then are slow to pay amounts owed. Non-profits across the country have seen dramatic drops in fund raising and most is now very targeted. While we all (me included) want as much of our donation as possible to be used to help - the reality is most of that help requires people and space that has to be paid for. There aren't enough dollars out there - and in this depression/recession - many historical givers to charities have become users of charity - a double blow to organizations.


shanendoah - 10/14/10 10:52 AM

social security:[/b] Here's the thing, the money we are paying in to social security now is not being put away for us, it is paying for the people currently on social security. This is the way the system was designed to work - the current working generation takes care of the retired generation. FDR & Congress instituted it because there was a major problem in the US of older people dying because they couldn't afford to heat their homes, buy food, or the most basic medication. The first generation of people to receive social security never paid a dime into it. Europeans have a very similar system. It works beautifully as long as your population keeps growing. The problem is when population growth becomes stagnant or declines. This is the practical reason behind why the Scandanavian countries have such generous maternity/paternity leaves. They were the first countries to start to experience true population decline. At first, this increases national productivity and GNP because of the increased productivity of women in the work force. (China is currently in this stage.) But then things start to decline as you don't have enough workers to support the retirement system. So, the Scandanavian countries are doing everything they can to do away with the "mommy penalty" in the work place and encourage people to have children.

The US is the only major "modern" nation to still have population growth. However, its not enough to keep up with inflation, especially given the number of boomers who are/will be retiring. It is possible that Social Security will still be there in 30+ years when I reach current retirement age, but I am not holding my breath. (Here's a link to a great, readable article about global aging.)

I don't want people to be able to choose or not choose social security the way it is currently set up. Because if I choose against it, its not just my grandparents getting hosed, but everyone's grandparents. I don't like the fact that our government now tries to disguise the purpose/how social security works. (I couldn't tell you when this started, but long enough ago that most people my age and older don't understand it.) Its complicated by the fact that some government workers (including all members of Congress) don't have to pay into it, because they have their own retirement plans. Social Security is not a retirement plan. If we as a nation believe it is important to subsidize our elderly (I do), than we should believe that it is everyone's responsibility and not exempt a select few from the process.


I am certain there was something else I wanted to post in response to, but I got distracted by Social Security. Will have to go back through posts and remind myself what else I wanted to say. Tongue out


SES_Books - 10/14/10 12:42 PM

shanen-[/b]-Excellent post about social security. However federal workers DO pay social security except for a very small minority, less than 5%, I think (some of those who have worked as a fed longer than 28 years) and within the next few years ALL federal employees will pay social security. The reason they (and railroad employees) were not included when social security was established is because they were already paying a greater percentage amount through their pension plan. I did not know congress doesn't pay social security. I do know they have some really sweet deals when it comes to medical services and vesting in the retirement plan. I wonder if that changed when they went to the new fed retirement system? The thing that really gets me is you only have to pay social security on the first $106,800 earned. If they want to consider $250,000 middle class, why such a low threshold for social security? I also don't like the way congress can "borrow" from the social security trust fund and never have to pay it back.

I encourage all young people to take responsibility for their own retirements, because I agree with Reenee about social security not being there for them. I don't know what the final solution will be, but i don't think it will be pretty. I think the average SS payment is $1047/ mo, and 47% of American retirees survive on that amount.


shanendoah - 10/14/10 01:17 PM

ses: [/b]Thanks for clarifying. I knew some federal workers (besides congress) didn't pay in, but did not know how many (few) and also didn't know about the changes that are taking place. I agree with you that the earning limit on social security earnings should be increased. I also think there needs to be a way to figure out how to add a social security tax on to capital gains responsibly. Bill Gates no longer "earns" any money - he doesn't work, he doesn't pay social security. His money all comes in the form of investment and dividends. Maybe it needs be the opposite of the earnings limit - we charge social security taxes on all capital gains over $X amount.

[Honeylioness]

Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/07/10 07:46 AM


Optimize October No Spend/Controlled Spend:[/b]

Ladies, our faithful secretary and founder, mittenkitten has an even heavier workload, and has spent countless hours on our behalf for three years. In that time, we've welcomed newbies who have become cherished friends, cemented the bonds of friendship among our long time posters, and created a circle of women of all ages and stages. Our thread has enriched our lives so much.

I know you'll join with me in thanking mittenkitten for all she has done to steer, manage and to report our monthly goals and successes.

For newbies, most weeks we put out for discussion, a Question of the Week and a Challenge of the Week. These are great focusing tools. It's a wonderful forum. It's always so much fun-and rewarding- to read the responses. Given this, let's consider these topics for this week:

Question of the Week:

What direction, ideas do you have to keep our no spend/controlled spend thread thriving?

Challenge of the Week:

Offer ideas to continue mittenkitten's record-keeping in some way and how we might go forward with a good, tight focus on saving and spending wisely?


shanendoah - 10/07/10 11:04 AM

COTW: [/b]Thanks to MK for all her hard work. I could take over the spreadsheets/record keeping if someone else can take over starting the monthly threads...

QOTW: Maybe a couple people in charge of welcoming newbies, itinerate and shy members? Sometimes there are so many posts that it can be hard to notice that someone new has joined us, or that someone who was here for a month than went away came back, or someone who is usually quiet has posted something. This board is great for the positive reinforcement and support it gives. Just want to make sure that we're giving it to everyone, not just our vocal core. In general, I don't think too many people fall through the cracks, overall this group is great at recognizing old and new friends, but it might be nice to have a designated point person or two as a welcoming/encouraging committee. (Not that we all wouldn't still welcome and encourage...)


SES_Books - 10/07/10 09:36 PM


Mitten[/b]--you have done a fabulous job on our behalf for so long. Especially in a very challenging time for our country and all of us trying to just get through. Once again a big thank you!


Question of the Week: What direction, ideas do you have to keep our no spend/controlled spend thread thriving?

This is such a great group for positive reinforcement, encouragement and even a kick where and when needed. Sometimes we get off track, but being women (we had a couple of men but they didn't stick around) we tend to view money holistically and all the ways it affects and impacts our lives. Over time I learned to stick within my budget without counting my NSD/CSD. I hang around to keep myself on the straight and narrow and because of the great friendships. I do feel that with the slightly improved economy some of us have lost some of the motivation and momentum we had. How to remain focused and thriving, IDK.


Challenge of the Week: Offer ideas to continue mittenkitten's record-keeping in some way and how we might go forward with a good, tight focus on saving and spending wisely?

I am thankful for the personal accountability here but I sometimes wondered about giving the responsibility for tracking MY progress to someone else. That is putting a LOT of responsibility on that "someone else." I guess i am wondering if we need to have our progress tracked and recorded by someone. Why can't we just track our own progress, or lack thereof? Just posting our goals and successes is a personal accountability. This thread is not really like the savings or debt reduction threads. It is more day-to-day survival than honing in on the big goals and details.

[Honeylioness]

Honeylioness - 10/15/10 11:19 AM

Morning Ladies,

Okay, confession time. As most of you will have figured out by now I am not the most spontaneous of people. I like / need to research, think and plan for big and small things - from buying a new vehicle to re-organizing a kitchen cabinet.

Well, yesterday I went completely Spur Of The Moment. I bought three round trip airline tickets to take the girls to Washington, DC for one day - Election Day actually.

When I told the girls over dinner Ines commented along the lines of "Wow, Mom, you know I love you a lot but this is very unlike you ... I mean ... you are not a real spontaneous lady .."

Then Siying, my practical fiscal conservative, got a panicked look on her face and started babbling about did their parents know? And she was not supposed to use their credit card for large purchases without telling them first, and flights were expensive etc....

Then I got to drop my bombshell See, I heard of a special being run yesterday to promote a new commuter route between Boston and D.C. ..... so, how much did I pay for THREE Round Trip airline tickets including taxes and fees?



$106.25 !!!!!



Yep, for only $35 RT per person I decided I could not pass up the chance to take the girls to visit our nation's capitol.


Gee .... I guess I won't be able to count yesterday as a NS then ....


spruby - 10/15/10 08:23 PM

honey [/b]- i work in dc and love to play travel agent/guide - if you want any suggestions/ideas - please holler. Also - you might want to sign up for Groupon and LivingSocial for DC - they run lots of specials on tours and such - some good deals if you want to do one


sapphire12 - 10/18/10 05:37 PM

honey [/b]-- Excellent deal on the RT tix between Boston and Washington. The irony of coming to DC on Election Day.


GLDNLUVLY - 10/19/10 04:51 PM

Honey! [/b]I am sorry for the passing of your dear aunt. A few of my friends have been going through loss right now. Big Hugs to you. On a brighter note, what time does the plane land. I am 15 min. away from National Airport. Would love to see you and your new family!


wvugurl26 - 10/19/10 08:10 PM

Honey[/b] sorry to hear about your aunt. I think that's awesome what you are doing for the girls. DC has so much to see and I have seen next to none of it.


Honeylioness - 10/20/10 11:52 AM

spruby - I would welcome any suggestions you have to make our day trip more workable. At the moment I have slipped back into planning mode and have come up with the following:

* Arrive about 11:20 at Reagan National
* Take the yellow line out towards the Capitol
* Do Capitol tour
* Walk down the street to the National Archives and see the Declaration, Consitution and Bill of Rights
* Continue down the street towards the White House
* Late Lunch and WH Visitor Center (we will be landing too late in the morning to make any of the tours so I did not even contact my Rep's office)
* Head over towards the Lincoln Memorial
* Visit Lincoln, Vietnam & Korean War Memorials
* Walk down to the WWII Memorial
* Head over to the Smithsonian American History Musuem
* Train/Metro to Crystal City for Dinner (I heard there is a collection of restaurants at the station???)
* Plane Home


One question I had is whether it would be better to visit the musuem before the monuments - as the museum closes at 05:30 pm and out flight is at 08:00 pm.

What do you think? Too ambitious an itinerary?


GLDN - Would LOVE to meet you and you have mail


GLDNLUVLY - 10/20/10 12:04 PM


Honey-I can meet you at the WH!!! I am literally a few blocks away!!!!


SingleMom - Ky - 10/20/10 12:31 PM

Honey [/b] - Thank you for stepping up in MK's absence and thanks to MK for keeping track for so long. I agree that I like to see my #s in black & white and always look forward to which icon I am going to end up with.

I have never been to DC, so take this with a grain of salt but it seems like you are packing a lot into one day. Do you think the girls will really get an appreciation trying to do so much at one time? What have they said as far as what they want to see or are interested in?


startsmart - 10/20/10 12:51 PM

Honey[/b]- sounds like a great trip! Having just one day you may need to be flexible on the museums depending on the field trips going on. American history is one of my favorites but the natural history museum is also great. Being election day the former might be slammed with visitors. Hopefully you're there late enough in the afternoon the small humans will have returned to the third grade. Also, they do search your bags at the entrance so make sure everything is easy to open (packed purses take longer to search).


Honeylioness - 10/20/10 01:54 PM

Washington DC - Thanks for the feedback. Actually the current itinerary is the greatly edited one from where we started. Originally the girls wanted to add: The Zoo, Arlington, The Smithsonian (Had to explain this was a collection of museums and they then chose 3 they wanted to visit *RME* ) AND shopping in Georgetown.

Here is what I want as non-negotiables:

National Archives - because even though I have been to DC several times I have never seen the documents that make me an American.

WWII Memorial - the only thing on the list that has been built since my last visit.

For the girls the one thing they have both agreed is a MUST is the White House gift shop as each wants to get something for their fathers from the White House.


GLDNLUVLY - 10/20/10 02:16 PM

Honey-Check with the National Archives as far as availability of public access. Things have changed over the years. I know for most of the museums you cannot take bags of any sort into them. You can barely have keys. The WWII Memorial has been there for years. It's just been restored since your last trip to DC. For time purposes if G'town is of interest is to visit the White House, do a tour of the monuments, visit G'town, take a bus into Rosslyn, catch the blue line train into Crystal City for an early dinner and head to National to fly home. There are lots of things to oooh and aaah over in all of the museums and I wouldn't want the girls to get overloaded. Some of the museums you can spend a day in and still not see everything.


dakota4600 - 10/20/10 04:24 PM

Honey- Have you checked on the capital tour? I know when we went (2007) it was 2-3 hours and you had to contact your rep or Senator to get a ticket. Of course we went over spring break so the lines for everything were ridiculous.


startsmart - 10/20/10 04:47 PM

I have never seen the documents that make me an American.

you've never seen your birth certification?!?

I think they finished the WW2 memorial in 2004, when I first visited in 2002 it was under construction. There is a smaller WW1 memorial south of the larger WW2 memorial. check out the ww1 memorial here

[/u]spruby - 10/20/10 09:03 PM[/u]

Honey [/b]- see my comments - this is incredibly ambitious given your time constraints - so I think this might be better - plus a lot of the great stuff in DC is OUTSIDE -

* Arrive about 11:20 am at Reagan National
* Take the yellow line out towards the Capitol
* Do Capitol tour pick either the Capitol tour or the National Archives - school field trips are gearing up now ('tis the season) and there is ALWAYS a line at the Archives. - usually half way down the block
* Walk down the street to the National Archives and see the Declaration, Constitution and Bill of Rights
* Continue down the street towards the White House – walk down the Mall and admire the museum architecture - talk about what is in each one, how they are national treasures and free to all - totally different than most countries
* Late Lunch and WH Visitor Center (we will be landing too late in the morning to make any of the tours so I did not even contact my Rep's office) skip stopping for lunch - bring snacks and buy from the hot dog cart - don't waste much time on this during a one day trip - walk and chew or take a 15 minute break - in fact buy & eat as you walk down the Mall
* Head over towards the Lincoln Memorial
* Visit Lincoln, Vietnam & Korean War Memorials – two more fun ones are right there - across the street (Constitutions) from the Vietnam (and behind a hedge) a HUGE Einstein statue - you can climb up and sit on his lap and get a picture (a quick diversion) and in the other direction - across the way - the FDR Memorial - it is very cool and very educational
* Walk down to the WWII Memorial absolutely
* Head over to the Smithsonian American History Museum I may be beating a dead horse here - but skip this - UNLESS the weather is bad - in which case slip in on you way to the White House for one hour - have each girl pick ONE thing they want to see - the reason is that there is so much everywhere that you'll stop 10 times on the way to each one thing and see a ton more
* Train/Metro to Crystal City for Dinner (I heard there is a collection of restaurants at the station???) – ehh on Crystal city restaurants - frankly they will either be fast food junk in which case hit the airport and clear security for the same thing or take a long time - and nothing fun/special to see. If you want to devote time & money to a nice meal - do a Washington "institution" like Old Ebbitt Grill near the White House or more snacks/vendor food
* Plane Home

Other options: - after the White House - head to Washington Monument - see the WWII on the way to Lincoln, etc. - then head over the Memorial Bridge and walk to Arlington National Cemetery for a quick visit - you can catch the metro at that stop as well - you can also get off at the Pentagon and walk to the 9/11/01 memorial there - very moving - the tragedy at the Pentagon that day doesn't always get a lot of coverage - and many people don't realize the memorial there is done and open - if you need a walking break - grab a pedicab to take you the next stop! - look at an all day metro pass

Eating is the tough part - I really recommend eating at the vendors or the Smithsonian food places - there is one near the Washington Monument/White House - or after the Capitol tour/Archives tour - go the Museum of the American Indian (or similar name - sorry ) very cool space and go to their food court in the basement - they have different native American foods - something different and relatively quick and tasty!!!!

My theme is really - absent BAD weather - stick to the outside as much as possible! It is a great overview of both DC but also what we thing is important in this country - yes we have an American History Museum - but also an Asian Art & Natural History - I think it is great to not just see it but understand the context - OHHHH - one more side diversion - walk down the Mall towards Washington (worth a trip to the top) - take a left at 14th (before the Washington) - walk to the Holocaust Museum - there is a way to go through it or around it and you end up close to the Tidal Basin where you can see the Jefferson across the way and close to the Tidal Basin where you can see the Jefferson across the way and....then head back to the Washington Monument. Also - keep a spare $20 to catch a cab to National in case you run short on time/Metro gets wonky (which it does)

So in summary - for all but worst weather - pick one of the following: Capitol Tour/Archives/Visiting American History - make sure you get tickets for the tours - for the Archives you can reserve a place in line ($1.50 each - a bargain) - details at www.archives.gov/nae/visit/reserved-visits.html

Then walk and walk and walk!!!!

[Honeylioness]

Honeylioness - 10/20/10 01:54 PM

SES - I meant to reply to your question about my plans for canning etc. A couple of weekends ago the girls and I picked over 40 pounds of various apple varieties at a local orchard, then came home and made many many jars of apple sauce. However it seems that Siying is doing her best to deplete this bounty as quickly as possible!! I had to tell her to pace herself as I would like to have at least a few jars left by Christmas!

This weekend we are going back to this farm for pumpkins. It is their final open weekend of the year and they run a pumpkin "special". All the pumpkins you can carry in your arms for 10 feet just $20. I did this last year with Anne and we got almost a dozen smallish sized pumpkins balanced for the 10 foot walk. I want to cook and puree them this weekend for pumpkin breads and pies. I might even try my hand at pumpkin butter for the first time.

Last week I had a co-worker show up at my desk with a LARGE blue bucket. Seems she was cleaning up her garden for the year and had all these green tomatoes that just were not going to ripen before the frost came. I think she was wrong - but whatever. She said "I didn't want to just throw them out and I just knew you could do something with them." so I now have a lot of these gnarly things to deal with. I am thinking of making Fried Green Tomatoes on night with dinner so the girls can try them. Then the rest I will probably try making either relish or chutney out of.

We also still need to pull all the berries I picked this summer out of the freezer and make jams. Before the girls arrived I did make several batches of pickles and several jars of strawberry preserves - so at least that is done.


SES_Books - 10/20/10 07:38 PM

Honey-Just reading all that you have done exhausts me. I have the juice for three or four batches of jelly in the freezer but I will wait until it is cold enough that a hot steamy kitchen will feel good to process them. If there is enough juice I might make some chokecherry syrup for Christmas presents--good on waffles or ice cream

[Honeylioness]

Honeylioness - 10/25/10 01:18 PM


I am so tired today!!!!!! The girls and I had a MAJOR weekend in the kitchen.

* Pre-soaked sliced green tomatoes for chutney
* Went and picked out a large pumpkin for carving
* Picked out 9 sugar pumpkins for cooking
* Tried five different stores before finding the really small canning jars - or any jars for that matter
* Peeled, cored and chopped 10 pounds of green tomatoes, eight pounds of apples, peppers, onions and herbs for chutney
* Made and canned 13 jars of chutney
* Halved and scooped six sugar pumpkins. Roasted said pumpkins then scraped the shells clean.
* Pureed pumpkin flesh and set aside to drain
* Roasted saved pumpkin seeds
* Cooked down berries for jams:
* Six pints raspberry
* Seven pints blueberry
* Ten pints mixed berry (raspberry, blueberry, strawberry)
* Made a blueberry pie
* Then made dinner (buttermilk fried chicken, twice baked potatoes and green beans)

And I don't think we are done because even after adding more than enough (in my opinion) pectin my STUPID jams are runny!!!! I might have to re-do the whole batch of raspberry and blueberry.


dianartemis - 10/25/10 01:29 PM

And I don't think we are done because even after adding more than enough (in my opinion) pectin my STUPID jams are runny!!!! I might have to re-do the whole batch of raspberry and blueberry.

Honey - This is homemade syrup for pancakes and waffles. You don't have to redo a thing, cause it's gourmet! At least that's what my family always did. Which worked for me, because I'm not a huge maple syrup fan.


shanendoah - 10/25/10 01:56 PM

Honey:[/b] Or homemade ice cream topping, yummm!


SES_Books - 10/25/10 07:43 PM

Honey[/b]-- Just name them something elegant and exotic, written in your best calligraphy and tied with a fancy ribbon and everyone will think it is a fancy topping. KCgal and her family still prefer the cinnamon peach jelly (er, topping) I thought didn't set right.