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Post by Honeylioness on Jul 1, 2010 10:04:31 GMT -5
Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 07/05/10 08:37 PM
QOTW: [/b]What unexpected expenses do you have with overnight guests?
CTW: What pre-planning minimizes the cost of house guests?
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Honeylioness - 07/06/10 04:08 PM
QOTW[/b]: Like a lot of other people I would say "food" is at the top of the expense list. I sometimes feel there is this unspoken rule that your guests, even if they are family, have to be offered better than you would serve yourself and that cheerios with a banana is not acceptable for breakfast or lunch. Aside from that would be costs I'd consider "entertainment" - going to a movie or show or museum that you had not budgeted for but that they really want to see.
COTW: If this is a rare occurrence and not a regular guest send them links to local attractions and ask them to pick two they would be interested in. Then check with your local library to passes that you may be eligible for as a town citizen, or with AAA for discounts on admissions.
Keep staples on hand so they can make their own breakfast and perhaps lunch. Pre-plan dinner meals.
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Post by Honeylioness on Jul 6, 2010 15:15:20 GMT -5
Honeylioness - 07/06/10 03:54 PM[/u]
Just in case anyone was wondering why I have not been around this weekend I present my writing assignment: What I did on my four day weekend .....
* Picked six pounds of raspberries
* Picked ten pounds of blueberries
* Sorted fruit, some were separated and frozen for using later, made a berry compote, prepped and froze some fruit for future jam making session
* cleaned out two kitchen cabinets
* Posted some items on FreeCycle
* Caught a young groundhog and waited for animal control to come get it. Sure hope I get my cat carrier back! (And I did get scratched ... man they have long claws!)
* cleared out left side of pantry and part of the back wall
* Rotated the freezer 90 degrees to fit against the back wall to free up floor space and increase access
* Sorted through pantry items and set aside items for donation or sale (I mean really, how many quart canning jars does a woman need???)
* Installed new shelves along side wall of pantry and re-organized items returned.
* Went to the local paint store
* Picked up two items at Lowe's
* Went grocery shopping
* Watered outdoor plants SEVERAL times (poor things)
* Packed up the second bedroom and moved out furniture (except for the bed and bureau)
* Stripped off existing wall paper border (Note: This was labeled as "self adhesive", think "contact paper". It never relay "stuck" very well and I was not happy with it a week after I did it five years ago)
* Pulled up carpet from bedroom (disgusting color and texture - indoor/outdoor brown-gray that the previous renter used as an ironing board ... want to know how I could tell? The last room with this hideous carpeting to be done)
* Pulled up padding, removed the thousand staples used to attach it to the subfloor and pried off the carpet tack strips.
* Hung new wall paper border along the ceiling's edge.
* Prepped bedroom floor - filled in large nail holes and lightly sanded rough spots. Swept once then vacuumed twice to remove grit and dust.
* Painted floor with two coats of a deck/porch paint in a grayish/blue color. (I wanted to put down the same laminate flooring as the rest of the house - however they no longer make it!! And right now I cannot afford laminate or carpet anyway - so paint it is!)
* Painted the front panel of my dishwasher (It was re-installed after the kitchen re-build but while everything around it is white with brushed nickel this is black with an almond colored front panel. The black I can live with the almond color has bugged me since day one. However I cannot see replacing a working machine just because of color. I found a spray paint made specifically for appliances and metal - so I taped everything off, covered the area around with paper and voila! A WHITE paneled dishwasher for under $5. But man did it STINK.
* Used the rest of the spray paint to do the heat floor grates in the student's bedroom
* Removed drawer pulls and sanded the surface from the desk I picked up a few weeks ago (Found it on Craig's List. College student, moving in two days, desk did not sell so he was giving it away. My favorite price ... FREE!)
* Gave the desk and drawers two coats of paint in a soft cream color (left over from painting the living room)
* From the wall paper border cut out several motifs and arrangements to apply to desk drawers
* Took out bin of trash, washed out all painting supplies etc.
What I still need to do:
* Finish taking pictures and post items for sale on Craig's List
* Make fitted slip cover for rocking chair back and cushion for student's room
* Decoupage desk and apply a quick coat of sealant over motifs
* Look at small bookcase from bedroom to see if it can be repaired or will need to be tossed
* Move chair from piano upstairs for desk, make matching seat cushion from rocking chair fabric.
* Add bracing to bench seat from bedroom, repaint and recover then use for piano bench.
* Pack up Anne's items and get cost estimate. Then let her know prices and which one she wants to pay for
* Take pictures of aprons I made for the girls then mail them off to Mom
Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 07/06/10 05:56 PM
Honey,[/b] Hokey smokey, you were one busy gal!
moneysquirrel - 07/06/10 08:46 PM
Today I remained home and therefore it was an easy day to have a NS. It was another rainy day and I did get started on a little prep for school. I really need to get myself in gear and start being a little more intense in getting things finished. Looking over the ss lists of Honey and others, I have been a total slack off in getting items done.
spruby - 07/06/10 09:00 PM
Honey - your "done" list make me tired just reading it!!!
Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 07/06/10 09:10 PM
moneysquirrel, You and me both. What do you say we run Honey for President, smartstart for VP, in 2012?
cdarrow26 - 07/08/10 10:04 PM
Honey[/b] Your list exhausted me! I tore out wall to wall carpet in my house (living room, kitchen, hallway, stairs, and one bedroom) a couple years ago. I could never understand exactly WHY so many staples were needed...what a job. If I never pull another staple out of the floor or see another tack strip, it will be too soon. I wish I had half of your motivation!
Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 07/08/10 10:55 PM
cdarrow,[/b] (2)I had that experience, liberating the two bedrooms of their 1960's carpet. Didn't know there were that many staples in the known universe.
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Post by Honeylioness on Jul 7, 2010 10:31:06 GMT -5
Honeylioness - 07/07/10 11:16 AM
*grumble grumble* ... I was afraid someone here would be on the ball enough to ask about that ... *pout*
I actually received my quilt and the judges sheets back last Tuesday - while Anne was still here. She was rather interested in reading why they had not marked the quilt higher. The upshot is that all three judges, while differing in points in various categories, all gave me a 79 out of a 100. You need 85 for a third place ribbon.
I got nice comments about the bead work and embellishing. However some of the things I lost points on were: found pet hair on quilt, space between quilting lines not consistent some are 1/16 - 1/8 inch different, Should not be able to tell where stitching starts and stops, bottom edge does not hang completely straight, more quilting should have been done in "feathers", borders MUST be mitered ...
The last one really got me ... REALLY??? I cannot find anywhere where there is a quilt "law" that you MUST miter the border fabric. And guess what morons? I did not have enough fabric to do that and still have all the motifs facing the same way. And if I had mitered and the motifs were all in different aspects I am sure I would have lost points for THAT!
Gin, Compote is just a slightly fancier way of making a mixed fruit salad but it softens up the fruit a bit more and makes a sort of amalgam of the flavors. The basic recipe is below - really easy and you can use any kind of fruit you have on hand though berries are best in my opinion
Spring Berry Compote
1/2 pint fresh raspberries
1/2 pint fresh blueberries
1/2 pint strawberries, hulled, quartered
1/2 cup granulated sugar
2 tablespoons frozen orange juice concentrate (you can also use frozen lemonade concentrate for a "brighter" flavor)
1. In a saucepan over medium-heat, heat raspberries and blueberries; simmer 5 minutes.
2. Add the strawberries and simmer until strawberries begin to soften ( about 3 minutes).
3. Add sugar and orange juice concentrate and simmer until sugar dissolves (about 3 more minutes).
4. Chill 1 hour. Stir before serving and spoon into dessert dishes
5. Optional: Top with a dollop of whipped cream or creme fraiche
Makes 8 servings.
While I have no objection to selling the jars to you I worry about the cost of shipping them as they are the older versions with glass lids and the box will weigh a lot. I would also make sure you have a store that sells the rubber ring seals for these. Might be cheaper for you to locate jars locally and I would be happy to do a phone call and walk you through the process.
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Post by Honeylioness on Jul 7, 2010 10:32:27 GMT -5
Honeylioness - 07/07/10 11:19 AM
*Snorts* Okay, so you will defend me during my impeachment hearings as well? While I might get elected I am not so sure it would be smooth sailing from there. See, I would not give a rat's patootie about getting a second term so I would be pushing the limits of executive privilege and slashing budgets left and right and eliminating most of the redundant layers of bureaucracy in all branches and departments.
By the Way, Congress? You can forget anymore "Cost of Living" raises until the millions of average citizens out of work in this country can afford to feed their families. You all make on average $174,000 a year. That's just your base. And senior members make a lot more, like that pit bull Pelosi whose salary is currently $223,500.
Let's not forget all the extra perks you get, like free health care, living subsidies, speaking fees, pensions, etc etc etc. Deal with it. No, you don't NEED to own two palatial houses - one back in your home state and one in DC - get a sublet, rent a studio, pitch a freakin' tent for all I care. You need room for an intimate dinner party for 50? Rent part of the ball room at the Radisson.
I think it's time for a little overhaul of the Constitution. Article 1, Section 6 states Congress can set their own wage and they have done so many times over the years since 1789. Bet I can get public opinion on my side. And term limits. I want term limits on all members of congress. It was intended to be a representation of average citizens - NOT a lifelong right. If the president can't be in office for more than eight years at a time ... what makes you think you have the right to camp out there for 20, 30, 40 years? Perhaps if you were not so comfy sitting on your fat padded assets you might actually get something done to benefit the neighborhood you will be moving back to in six years. This has the added benefit of not distracting you with re-election and you might actually spend more than 5 days a month in your office working.
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teh mom - 07/07/10 11:40 AM
Preach! Sister Honey! Preach!
*as we all stand up on tables and chairs cheering and clapping wildly!
Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 07/07/10 12:00 PM
Honey, teh mom,[/b] Then, it's decided. Honey for Prez, 2012. Don't you worry your little self about a trifle like impeachment Wink. We are the Pink Posse and we decide who we want for President. No more bridges to nowhere? No overseas wars? No selling our $$ future to countries with atrocious human rights, no foot dragging over disasters at home? Gosh. I'm in! Could I interest Honey in a little peaceful annexation once she takes power?
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Post by Honeylioness on Jul 12, 2010 9:42:55 GMT -5
sapphire12 - 07/12/10 09:40 AM
SES/sharing/R2B2 -- We are saving approximately 4%. We have cut back on shopping. I'm rather annoyed at the talking heads who think people aren't spending because they are scared. This is true for some. Some have cut back because they are shoring up their personal balance sheets; some have just lost the appetite for shopping; some have changed priorities by choice; some are rethinking their purchasing decisions and the frivilous spending of the past is over; some are still shopping til they drop. I was at the mall on Saturday. Far fewer people than I would expect, though people were shopping if they found a good deal. In most of the apparel stores, there was a sale on most everything; this isn't good for the proprietors, but it is good for consumers. I think many are looking for a good deal and that doesn't necessarily mean that a sale item is a good deal. Back to School sales officially start this week; kids just got out of school, it seems. Some are predicitng a lackluster season, time will tell. Maybe this is the new normal. People will splurge from time to time, but the rest of the year, take a breather and exercise caution.
Honeylioness - 07/12/10 10:04 AM
Sharing - You are so sweet to ask about that. Actually I had a bit of "excitement" late last week regarding the new girl. I got an e-mail from the organization basically saying "hey, the kids are arriving one day different from what we told you before ...they will be here August 5th .."
WHAT THE F.... ?!?!?!?!?!? First off, I had yet to be given ANY kind of arrival information at all. Secondly, what the H3LL is she supposed to DO for 3+ weeks until school starts? Hello people, most of us cannot just take that much time off to get a kid acclimated. Not only that but during last year's welcome orientation I heard kids griping about how they had come too early and while they understood the host parents had to work it felt awkward to them also to be left alone all day for that long with no friends etc...
Anyway, I contacted my area rep and finally heard back. She is now scheduled to arrive on August 25th. MUCH better. I just need to hear back now on an appointment date to get her classes assigned at school etc.
sapphire - Good to see you. I share your annoyance with many of the so-called "experts" who are now saying that it is a bad thing that Americans are saving more. First they bash people to not saving enough now for saving too much? Hate to break the news to you folks, but a lot of us don't feel the need to buy new things all the time when we have more than enough already and honestly, how many bath towels do I need? And the national savings rate is still at only about 7% so obviously not EVERYONE is saving.
You really want to get the economy back on track? Get serious about incentives to big businesses to STOP shipping jobs overseas so they can pay assemblers $2 a day thereby increasing their profits and being able to buy themselves yet another 10 carat diamond ring for their mistress. Make them suck it up, deal with not being able to buy that fourth residence, and keep those jobs HERE. That will mean more Americans working, with money to buy things like food and clothes.
sapphire12 - 07/12/10 11:53 AM
honey -[/b]- that would be a new twist. A president that purposely only wants one term. Yea for the extra time on welcoming your new student. How is your knee?
Honeylioness - 07/12/10 12:46 PM
sapphire[/b], the knee is fine - thanks for asking. I have not had anymore leaping attacks by the ninja kitty, although last night he thought he would take a swipe at my bare toes just for the heck of it.
Actually the real "twist" would be getting anyone elected who was willing to speak their mind without letting the media make them back down because five guys in a diner in Left-Of-Nowhere, South Dakota got their knickers in a twist and chose to take offense at something said elected official said. Guess what folks - you are allowed to have your own opinion and if you make a comment to your best friend as the two of you are getting into a taxi ... it is NOT news!! And when the scum sucking journalist wanna-be's air said comment - just smile sweetly and say very nicely ... "So? You should have heard what we were saying about YOU only moments earlier".
I am so sick of "political correctness" I could puke. I just want to smack some people and say "No, you are not financially disadvantage with a follicular challenge and verticality issues along with your melanin deficiency" ... Let's call it like it is ... "You are a short, bald, broke, pasty white boy". Honestly, it seems too many people have become so open minded their brains have completely drained from the ears.
ETA: YEESH .... My soapbox is really getting a work out lately!
sapphire12 - 07/12/10 02:33 PM
honey -- campaigning is just beginning. Keep your soapbox near.
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Post by Honeylioness on Jul 13, 2010 9:18:38 GMT -5
Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 07/12/10 01:58 PM
Honey[/b], LOL. Well, it's Monday. I'd be suspicious of anyone, other than mothers of school aged children come September, who was too cheerful at the start of the week!
sapphire, I agree totally! In Europe, a single good item (one leather jacket, one pair of hiking boots, at most two pairs of top quality jeans) are purchased after much thought. Quality is the deciding factor, not quantity. Your post leads to a good QOTW:
***********************************
QOTW: What high quality item do you plan to pay up willingly?
COTW: How do you plan for a more costly, but quality purchase?
Here's what's on my mind.
QOTW: A beautiful winter coat that is chic, superior cut and cloth etc. before November 15th.
COTW: I'll look early, while selection is good, incentive sales are on, look in V.ogue mag for trends.
sapphire12 - 07/12/10 02:33 PM
sharing [/b]-- My ultimate purchase to date and probably forever more was the purchase of my first car, a Honda Accord EX Coupe 5 speed. The car was actually part of a school project. Then, I went to the dealership and picked up a brochure. I read the brochure from front to back numerous times. I researched the car in Consumer Reports; it repeatedly showed up as a good buy whether it was new or used. I would go to various dealerships and sit in the car, telling the salespeople, I wasn't ready to buy yet. I finally purchased mine new and drove it until the wheels fall off, almost literally when I got rid of it. No other car will ever excite me as much as that Accord.
I still do thorough research, but it was not as exciting buying my Highlander (2nd child syndrome), though I'll drive it until the wheels fall off. Less expensive purchases, I go through a series of questions-- is it a need? is this fabulous? will I use/wear it? is this necessary? do I really want it? how often will I use/wear it? -- obviously some things you have to buy for which these questions aren't applicable.
shanendoah - 07/12/10 02:49 PM
QOTW: [/b]This January, we bought a high quality sets of pots and pans. We used Christmas money to pay for them. We had had a cheaper set that had lasted us a few years, but was warped and then had been ruined by the MIL living with us and using metal utensils in non-stick pans. We shopped in stores and on the internet. And finally chose a set we're very happy with, that we then supplemented with a stainless steel skillet (because, according to DH, sometimes it is better to cook in stainless steal than on a non-stick coating).
We have also paid more for our car (diesel engine, so DH plans to be buried in it), a one piece toilet (easier cleaning), and when we bought our first house (new construction), upgraded carpet and a gas range. While I probably can't get a gas range in the current house (not plumbed for gas at all), one of the plans for the savings is to upgrade all of our flooring.
spruby - 07/12/10 08:43 PM
QOTW:[/b] What high quality item do you plan to pay up willingly? Travel - direct flights (no plane changes, avoid stops if possible), premium economy when flying to Europe if possible (those extra few inches make a huge difference), 3 star hotel ins GREAT neighborhoods, nice meals, a nice souvenir, side trips, first class on the train, car service if appropriate from airport to hotel/home - usually not all of these on every trip - but basically doing things to make the trip more comfortable/safe since we travel on our own (not part of a group). We do have one big trip that we are saving for now - there are a few different ways we could do it - but it is a once in a lifetime trip for us and we want to do it exactly the way we want to - so we'll save up the $$$ and splurge - instead of going on a shorter/cheaper version that doesn't have what we want
COTW: How do you plan for a more costly, but quality purchase? - we travel off season, look for sales/coupons/discounts, ask for discounts (used a car service for a couple of different things in Hawaii - and negotiated a great discount on a private tour), watch currency exchange rates and pre-buy what we need (helps stay on budget), really focus on what we want to do/experience
Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 07/12/10 10:32 PM
QOTW[/b] is getting some great answers and real insight into how our gals make decisions. I recall that dividend, SES_ spoke some months back about how difficult it can be to MAKE a purchase and we can't lose sight of the very real anxiety one can feel about an important purchase. Hats off to Gin, red_wagon for their first house purchase, to Honey who stepped up to the plate to house exchange students and her newest star boarder, David da Khat. Hats off to Muttley who, with her DH, made Benji possible with a contemporary sharing of roles, shanendoah who went after and after and after a better position until she got it, sapphire who makes travel and broadening her horizons a priority, to Nuttinhoney who went for nursing and though not yet there, is preparing to make it happen, moneysquirrel who at a not tender age- but trust me ladies, as youthful as springtime itself- took on a new school, new course, a full-time load and manages it all with grace and humor, mittenkitten who moves mountains including her local MN school board to get what she needs for DS#2, smartstart who knew she was under challenged and set in motion a zillion steps to realize her dream to freelance write.
Hats off to everyone of our posters, whether raising a child on your own, mzchelley, smokey, coping with terribly heavy workloads, R2B2, smokey, teen and college age kids, IOUnomore, teh mom. Hats off to SES_ who has stepped well out of her $$ comfort zone to renovate and prepare far in advance for the possibility that RA will make accomodations at home more likely than not as well as moneysquirrel whose home in the NO area took Katrina's wrath, lumberlady who shows the grace of Scarlett O'Hara in the face of a generational family business folding, 3cats whose gifts from the heart arrive via the US Post to brighten a kitchen. At the end of the day, it's all about courage, as every one of our ladies so amply demonstrates. A shout out to, to Angel and her DH for service overseas, and to dakota, her DH who serves in the classroom and long hours of coaching.
Honeylioness - 07/13/10 02:26 PM
[/quote]
While I do not have anything specific planned at the moment I will say that I echo what I have seen others post. Planning and research.
I did six months of reading and looking around before I purchased my truck in 1993. I had narrowed down my search to three specific makes/models and would call dealerships and ask about those items only. Within a couple of weeks I got a call back from a neighborhood dealership that not only had the make and model I wanted but were willing to sell it for less than list as it was owned by another person for six months and could no longer be called "new".
I am willing to pay for items that will get a lot of use and need to last a long time - like my stove, refrigerator, or furnace. My black winter coat is now eight years old - but as it still looks good and is a non-trendy design I consider the $125 I paid for it off-season to have been money well spent, even though at the time I was almost sick paying that much for a single item of clothing. My winter snow boots are pushing 12 years old, cost a fortune at the time, but are still functioning as they should.
One of the items that I still cannot seem to reconcile cost versus benefit for however is a mattress. Especially since I worked for a mattress manufacturer for two years back in my younger days, and know what goes into the making of one .... I really cannot see how some stores/companies can justify a price of $800, $900 or more. It is also one of the few things I would NOT purchase "pre-owned". I think some things really need to be NEW - not just "new-to-me" - i.e. underwear, a toothbrush or deodorant - I just could not buy any of those at a yard sale.
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Post by Honeylioness on Jul 19, 2010 10:19:16 GMT -5
Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 07/15/10 11:45 PM
SES_, Honey,[/b] mystery solved. My famous "Sid" who so resembles Miss Onyx, now has an identity. She's arrived this evening with a lovely new collar, a tag, w/ name,"Fearless" + phone #! My stray, "Ginger" an orange tabby I've put food out for, seems to have another war wound. He's an un-neutered male who scraps. He's got a wicked puncture behind the ear. I put some polysporin on some catnip, knowing he'd groom the wound. It's all I dare do...he's quite feral.
MuttleynFelix - 07/16/10 09:14 AM
Not too much going on here. I looked more into making our own baby food for DS. We were planning on doing it anyway, but it is super easy. So, DH and I are both looking forward to it. I'm such a dork ... DS is going to be all grown up and I'll have no idea how much diapers, formula or baby food was for him. Tongue out To add to my dorkiness, I decided that to prevent confusion DH and I are just going to introduce new foods on Wednesdays and Saturdays. Rather than count out 3 days every time. Yep, I am a nerd.
Honeylioness - 07/19/10 11:09 AM
Sharing[/b] - Glad to know your visitor has a real name and apparently a family who knows she is quite the social butterfly! And I had to chuckle at your explanation as to why the Boil Order was in effect.
Muttley - Nothing wrong with being a nerd. And for the record I don't actually see anything nerdy about not buying disposable diapers or making baby food. In my opinion isn't that the what parents have done for their children for thousands of years? Or if you want to view it in more contemporary terms, it is more "eco-friendly".
Of course you should keep in mind these comments are being made by a woman who makes her own laundry detergent, cans and has a shelf in her pantry with various dried plant parts she uses as medicine.
azjane - Welcome. As SES said, this can be a long slow process so don't expect to ace it your first month or two ... even those of us who have been around a bit still crash and burn (as I am last month and so far this month!)
SES - I liked the image of Onyx splayed out on the deck. Mary likes to lay behind one of the box fans with her tummy facing it. I think as the air gets pulled into the fan the "suction" cools her off. Over the years I have seen many different feline ways of getting relief from the heat:
Laying belly up in front of a fan. Splayed face down in the middle of a room atop where the air vents run underneath the floor. Curling around the back of the toilet so the cool porcelain is pressed against their tummy. Curled up inside the wash basin in the bathroom. Burrowed tummy first in the garden between rows of corn.
I am firmly convinced it is in their genes. Why can't they put the toilet seat down? Why do they put the milk carton back in the refrigerator with a teaspoon left in it? Why can't they change the toilet paper roll? Why can they not hear "Honey, can you take out the trash?" even if you shout it for the third time, but they can hear the sound of a beer bottle being uncapped from two floors away? Why can they tear apart a car engine and rebuild it but cannot handle the difficult mechanics of replacing the cap on the toothpaste? Why can't they ask for directions?
I firmly believe this is the reason it is called the "Y" chromosome.
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Post by Honeylioness on Jul 19, 2010 11:53:36 GMT -5
Honeylioness - 07/19/10 12:52 PM [/u]
Either the city has been slipping a little "something" pharmaceutical into the water supply or I have just an abundance of "startsmart" inspired energy.
What I did this weekend ....
* Picked 12 pounds raspberries
* Picked 07 pounds blueberries
* Sorted, cleaned and froze berries for R who is driving to Montana and will be back in two weeks
* Changed sheets
* Swept/Vacuumed all four levels of townhouse
* Cleaned both bathrooms
* Finished laundry
* Cleaned my room including dresser
* Hung sheers and drapes in my bedroom (FINALLY!!!)
* Re-Dyed three skirts
* Cleaned & de-cluttered studio
* Washed shower curtain, re-hemmed it then re-hung
* Re-posted items on Craigslist
* Took photos of fabric for posting on Craigslist
* Gathered items for sale to co-worker, brought in and left on desk
* Finished compiling items for Anne to be shipped when she sends the money
* Took detailed measurements for slip covering a rocking chair
* Finished back section of slip cover and cut out and pinned seat cushion cover
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Post by Honeylioness on Jul 22, 2010 15:16:24 GMT -5
Sheila in Cali - 07/20/10 11:01 AM
Honey:[/b] you are in HR so I will share with you. A friend of mine started working at a new company (same industry) as a salesman. One of the customers who he had known for years asked him about the ladies that do the dispatching and answer the phones. Paul said "I like to have a face to the voice since I talk to them on the phone multiple times a week- can you tell me a little about the ladies". I have known Paul for 20 years- his request was innocent. So my friend stopped by to ask tell the ladies of Paul's request but they were on the phone. So he snapped a picture of them with his camera phone and showed it to Paul and gave Paul a quick description of them "this is Sue- she has worked here for 20 years- she's the one you will need to talk to if you have any questions about your bill" etc. A few days later the ladies asked him about his baby and he said "oh I have a new picture to show you and handed them his phone. They saw the picture of them sitting at their desks on the phone and threw a fit. He explained about Paul's request but they felt it was harassment so they went to HR and he got fired. Seemed a little extreme to me- but I am curious as to your take on it.
startsmart - 07/20/10 02:59 PM
Sheila-[/b] I don't have as much HR experience as honey but I'd say firing is an overreaction. Sure, he should have asked permission, deleted the photo and not shown it to the woman but it's not like he took pictures of them in the bathroom. They were doing their jobs. And it sounds like with good intentions. If he didn't violate a company policy then reprimand, write a policy and let bygones be. I understand the women's point of view because you have to be careful but again, it's not an 'up the skirt' picture, so I would have asked that he not be fired on my account.
Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 07/20/10 03:22 PM
Sheila,[/b] It was a lapse of judgement done in good faith. A heartfelt apology and ten minute debriefing with the ladies able to vent should be adequate.
Sheila in Cali - 07/21/10 09:17 AM
Thanks for the responses about my friend HR violation. Sadly they did in fact fire him. He has already found another job but the sting is still there. Should he have asked for permission and waited for them to get off the phone before snapping their picture- absolutely. Did they overreact by terminating him- I believe so. Thanks for the responses- I was curious to see if I was biased or if other people viewed the situation the same way I did.
Honeylioness - 07/22/10 10:51 AM
sheila [/b]- I did read your posts and the replies to it regarding your friend losing his job. On the face of things it appears that the HR department did over-react. The only factors I can think of that would explain their action would be:
1) The company has a strict "No Photograph" rule. Mine does, because what we do is so competitve and under strong Trade Secret rules everyone must have permission to take pictures of anything in the office. Even when I have to take an employee's picture for say a newsletter article we have to go into the hall or outside. And if we do take it inside it is carefully staged.
2) They were intimidated by a specific or vocal female employee. Sad to say but it does happen
3) The company has been sued in the past over sexually improper actions. A company may also believe that they would rather deal with a wrongful termination suit than on claiming of sexual harrassment. The first is rather difficult to prove in court so many fired employees do not pursue it. However the second tends to be viewed more along the lines of "Guilty until proven innocent" and carries a greater stigma and splotch on a company's reputation.
4) Or something else happened that we are not hearing about.
I am glad he has found another position however. I would just mention to him that he should find out right away what their photograph policy is.
Sorry I have been away .... we are in the midst of dealing with this last round of layoffs that took place on Friday. And at least one person was very .... "het up" as my dad would say. What was your first clue? Probably the way he slammed the door against the wall to the VP's office as he stormed out.
And now our Divisional GM is on another of his "tears" .... about work hours and such this time. So our usual employee meeting - which for years has been on a Friday at 09:30 am - will be starting tomorrow at 08:00 am SHARP. As in I have to make a list of everyone who shows up after 08:01 am. OY
And I believe I had mentioned that a few days before the layoffs we had to fire an employee who had worked for us less than three weeks. In addition to the violations of our company policies we got a letter yesterday from her former employer's attorney. Seems she was still on their books as an employee when we hired her and put her on our books as an employee.
Sweet heaven above ... some people!!
teh mom - 07/22/10 11:17 AM
Honey-unless they are just CYA (for unemployment reasons), why would you receive a letter from the prior employers attorney? Unless due to your place of business, it is a competitor and they were afraid of her stealing secrets? Unless I've never worked anywhere that had any type of HR, and when you quit you gave your two week notice (or in some cases, just packed up your stuff one day and didn't show up the next.....I was so glad she was gone, I went and cleaned out her desk for them) and that was the end of it. Now I'm just grateful that I am a "stay at home mom".
Honeylioness - 07/22/10 11:40 AM
teh mom - Our industry is not that large and every company makes you sign a Confidentiality Agreement along with a Covenant Not To Compete. The latter means you are not supposed to go work for a direct competitor for a certain amount of time - depending on the agreement. Her prior employee voiced the opinion that we are a competitor of theirs ...but NOT. So that was not really an issue.
However there is a Federal Law that says you cannot be employed Full Time for more than one company at a time. So I could not work full time here AND get a full time salary from say Costco. I could work a F/T and a Part time job or multiple P/T jobs even if the hours were 60 hours or more a week. The issue is that when you work for a corporation where you get benefits (like health care or 401(k) ) you can only be on one plan at a time. Often new employees have their last official day at Company X on a Friday then start with us the following Monday.
However, what this woman did was give notice at Company T and her last day in the office was June 18th. She then was in our office and on our books the following Monday. The problem was she was still on Company T's payroll through the end of the month AND on their benefits - so technically she was still their employee until July 1st - something we were not informed of. So in effect she was "double dipping" both pay and benefits for 10 days.
Not good.
They also were made aware that there may have been a violation of the Confidentiality policy she had with them that they needed to address. Fortunately we were able to talk to the attorney and explain that she was no longer an employee here ...so they are not going to pursue any action against us. Hypothetically we could have been on the hook as an accessory if we were unable to prove that we had no knowledge that she had violated the other company's policies.
Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 07/22/10 12:42 PM
Honey, What great answers. You are a wealth of info. I did not know the law against two full-time positions. You explained the payroll overlap well.
teh mom - 07/22/10 02:19 PM
Honey-That says it all! My boss of eleven years tried to get me to sign one (after working for him eleven years), needless to say I didn't. The way it was written I couldn't even do my OWN tax return without him signing and paying him for it. I also couldn't go to work for another accountant for two years after I left his employment (for any reason). So...I'm going to "lock" myself to you!? Another co-worker took it to her lawyer and they rewrote it. The both of us signed the revised non compete. Basically said that if I left his employment I wouldn't pursue any of my old clients for two years. Not a problem. When I did leave, I didn't call any of them, but I had plenty that called me. I turned many of them down to do their accounting work, encouraged them to stay with him. A few I did their accounting work until all this medical stuff happened. Now I don't do any accounting work (other than enter information into quicken for our church and pay my friends bills for him).
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Post by Honeylioness on Jul 26, 2010 9:01:12 GMT -5
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Post by Honeylioness on Jul 29, 2010 13:56:04 GMT -5
Sheila in Cali - 07/29/10 10:35 AM
New HR nightmare: So we live in MN which is not a very diverse place to live. I have two Hispanic employees and the other day another employee referred to them as "Donkeys" which they took offense too. Don't blame them for being offended- I was quite po'd when it was brought to my attention as we don't tolerate that kind of behavior. Resolved the situation and everyone was ok with it (offender was written up and apologized). Problem is that one of these guys was on his last leg with us before this incident- failure to show up to work a couple of times, being late, etc. So this incident happens on Tuesday and on Wednesday he completely no shows. Calls me at 3pm to tell me he is in jail for the next week or two because he has some "tickets he has to deal with".
So: Can we fire him? Will it look bad if he is fired after he complained about some harassment? Considering firing him because in 5 weeks of working here he has yet to work a full week (no shows) and grossly over stated his qualifications and can barely do the job we hired him for. Plus now when we are super busy he is unavailable for another week or two. What do you ladies think?
SES_Books - 07/29/10 10:58 AM
Sheila--if you have a documented list of previous offences as to why he is not an asset to the company I would think a firing is appropriate. Especially since this is the time of year you need good workers. I would think in this economy you could find several good workers applying for the position. After all, the company exists to make money and not be a social welfare organization.
shanendoah - 07/29/10 11:09 AM
sheila[/b]: I am not an HR expert, but I think that as long as you have all the infractions documented, you can show that he was let go for cause. He might try to protest it through unemployment, but as long as your documents are solid, there shouldn't be a problem.
Gin1984 - 07/29/10 11:18 AM
Yes, you can fire him but you may get sued. The other guy that complained he has no problems right? Did you give the guy in jail final warning with his no shows? If not, to cover your ass when he comes back let him back with a final written warning, that he signs, that if he does one more no show he is fired.
dakota4600 - 07/29/10 12:05 PM
Shelia[/b]- Do you have an employee manual? If so what does it say about no shows? Have you documented his poor performance? I'd say it is a very grey area you are in. If he is the type to sue, he probably would if you fired him. Had it happen once with a woman who was pregnant, who claimed that was why she was fired. Luckily the supervisor had documented the errors in her work during her probationary period and the company was able to defend itself, but it did trigger a DOL audit of the company. No fun let me tell you.
Sheila in Cali - 07/29/10 12:42 PM
Thanks for your responses: For his previous no shows he was verbally reprimanded by his supervisor. Unfortuantely when he no shows on a Saturday and it's Monday before they can scold him and I don't find out until Al says something to me later in the week it's hard to document. Going to make up some forms for Al to keep in his truck so he can write people up so it's all documented.
Honestly- he feels like a "sue-er". I have the impression he will make a big stink if we let him go. I documented yesterdays No Show and will warn him that this is a final warning. If he is able to get out of jail and come back to work he will be on probation.
Honeylioness - 07/29/10 02:55 PM
Sheila - I would not call the termination "job abandonment". That term is used to classify a worker who neither shows up nor contacts the employer for three consecutive work days indicating they have no intention of ever returning. This also includes the manager trying to call and getting no response. In this case he "did" contact you.
You also cannot fire an employee merely for being arrested as this will open you up to a very long and messy legal fight. Just as you cannot terminate an employee for getting hit by a bus and being in the hospital for a month. You do not necessarily have to pay the employee, especially if they are not on salary, but they do still need to be on the books. Most states will recognize that if you terminate an employee after three months of not being able to clear up the matter that resulted in his being arrested - then the termination was valid.
However, it seems as though you DO have other more solid grounds for termination. Unfortunately verbal warnings by his supervisor are not documented evidence of poor performance and in a hearing count for less than nothing on your behalf. WRITTEN documentation is the only thing that will hold water in a potential legal matter. If as you state he mis-represented his qualifications, especially if they were written in his resume / application - that is grounds for immediate dismissal usually without much recourse for the employee.
If you do not have a current policy in place regarding performance documentation and warnings you better get one going ASAP. What I would suggest in order to cover yourself legally (and of course please feel free to contact a local employment law attorney) is send to this employee's home address a letter (Registered mail, return receipt requested) stating one of the following scenarios:
A) Document the violation mis-representing his qualifications and terminating his employment because of it. Be specific, for example: "Your resume stated you had extensive experience with the XYZ computer software yet when asked on July 2nd to replicate Document G you informed your supervisor that you had never actually used the program before...."
B) Note the overstatement of his abilities along with a warning about the past no-shows and other work performance matters. Let him know that you are placing him on performance probation as of today. The letter should also clearly outline what and how often you expect updates regarding his current situation (each day? by phone? via his family? etc) and two more additional non-contact or no-show days will be viewed by the company as Job Abandonment and he will be terminated immediately.
I know the temptation is high to get rid of him today .... but you really need to go through this process for the next week or so in order to save you and the company not only the stress and headache of a lawsuit but the potential debilitating costs as well. Plus this documentation may be able to deter such a suit in the beginning as will your not contesting his unemployment claim. This way he cannot claim you were being reactionary and vindictive which is what usually makes employers lose in court.
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