October 2009

[Honeylioness]

3catslady - 09/22/09 10:53 PM

MK; Happy birthday and many, many more.

Well I got through the day without a word from DS and DIL. The "For Sale" sign is in the yard and I have until tomorrow noon to change my mind. I won't. I just don't know what to do about paying the mortgage this month. I won't have enough until next payday which is the first week in October. I really need to pay the electric so we have heat. It is getting cooler. If I pay the electric, I won't have enough to pay the mortgage for another 2 weeks which will make it 45 days late and in 15 days I will need to pay it again to get on schedule. And the electric will be due again.

Sorry about the vent. I just don't know what to do. And I need to get the monies together for an apartment, i.e. first and last month and security deposit.

3catslady - 09/27/09 02:01 PM

Hi everybody; I only have a half hour left because it took me an hour to read your messages to date. I am doing fine. The realtor cancelled because the people had to work late. Things are quiet at the home front. My phone is also disconnected, but I have my cell. I will call someone at least once a week or try to get to the library on Sunday. I can also go to McD's but that will cost me money because I llllooooovvvveee their french fries and cannot get out of there without having some. I have a lot of packing to do so I am going to cut this short. I will catch up later. I have 3 places to look at next week. Hopefully within a month I will have a new home without stress.

I got the box from Ontario and have used the melatonin . It works because I can feel that I am less stressed than I was. Maybe that is because I don't care what happens as much as I did. Thanks for all the goods juju and keep it coming.

Oh yes, I asked for the password last night and he closed the door. His loss, not mine.


3catslady - 10/04/09 08:27 PM

It took me all day but I finally figured out the password. Now if DIL doesn't make him change it, I should be okay.

update for September; 27 NSD, 28 NEO, 20 MOAN= 125,749 for the month.

I went and looked at an apartment on Thursday and it sounds good. The only thing I fear is that I work too many hours and make too much to make the low-income guidelines. I may have to ask the boss to cut my hours. I will be allowed to take my pets because they are old, they made an exception for me, (they only allow one pet). I have to pay a $200 non-refundable fee and it will cost $25 extra a month for the pets. There is on-site laundry facilities (NO MORE LAUNDROMAT). The internet is $5 a month and I don't have to get cable to get it. All I have to furnish is my phone.

My goals for October are; 29 NSD, 28 NEO, MOAN=150,000 steps for the month.

I have not had any showings yet, except for the one. My friend is relatively sure I will sell within 6 months. I am packing as I am cleaning, shelves and drawers so far.

ETA; I cried when I saw a stove that I could actually cook on and a kitchen sink and a shower.

teh mom - 10/04/09 08:35 PM

ETA; I cried when I saw a stove that I could actually cook on and a kitchen sink and a shower.

Great, 3cats, you cry, then I cry, then Firebird cries....o wait......maybe not. Just a really nosy question, has DS made any arraignments for when the house sells? Or are you going to have to evict them for the new owners? Here's prayers that they don't cause you any grief.Red heart And yay on you getting to bring all of your kitties with you.


beej67 - 10/04/09 08:36 PM

Aww, 3 cats, I'll keep my fingers crossed and say a prayer you get the apt. Your comment about the stove brings tears to my eyes too. I'm sorry, but I would like to throttle your son & dil. I refuse to use the D in front of either.


wvugurl26 - 10/04/09 08:38 PM

3cats glad to see your have internet back. Good luck on the showings. I had to post that your story just tugs at my heart. No one should have to live like you have been while your DS and DDIL take advantage of you. The apt sounds very nice and I hope the house sells quickly so you can move to a place you deserve. You deserve so much more than you have now.

wvugurl26 - 10/04/09 08:42 PM

beej someone should throttle them bc their behavior is unbelievable. I teared up reading that it tugs on the heartstrings. While I would like to smack them, I believe in karma and they definitely aren't earning good points. I hope they get what they have coming to them.

3catslady - 10/04/09 08:47 PM

teh mom; I think they are looking at places because, through very thin walls, I heard her tell DGD that she couldn't stay after gymnastics on Thursday because they were going to look at a house. When the place sells they will have to move whether I put them out or not. I am leaving it to the realtor. I hope to be out of here by then. And, no, I am not paying the mortgage. I have started gathering the papers I will need for a short-sale and I wrote to the Mortgage Company and told them I am selling. I am waiting for a reply from them.

I am also waiting for the title to my car which I paid off 9/11. I think the person sent the paper work to Harrisburg so I will get the title from there.

3catslady - 10/04/09 08:52 PM

wvu; I have faith that they will get exactly what they deserve. They are going to have to explain their behavior to God. I am also going to have to explain why I let them treat me that way.


Gin1984 - 10/04/09 09:00 PM

3cats- Reading the comment about the stove makes me want to go down there and slap them, again. Take care please, my grams died a few years back and I would love to adopt you if your "family" treats you like that. Please let us know if you need anything.

Angel 33 - 10/04/09 09:39 PM

Hugs 3cats. I am sending lots of prayers and jujus that your house sells soon. I hope you get the apartment. You deserve a nice place to live where you can be at peace.

I am joining the "Slap the snot out of your son and DIL" posse'.


SES_Books - 10/04/09 11:17 PM

3cats--I'm pleased that you have found a terrific apartment (with stove, shower, and a sink) for you and your furry family. I want to have a couple of things happen before the posse arrives. I see this as insurance, please don't take it the wrong way. The way your family has been acting toward you borders on "elder neglect or abuse". I want you to find a social worker in your area that is familiar with elder issues. Not that you need their services now, but i want them to see the strong capable woman that you are so there is a baseline for them in case anyone ever tries to declare you incapable of managing your own affairs. Some of the things you have mentioned in the past about your DIL and her treatment of you worries me that she might not be above trying something. Besides maybe a social worker aware of your situation might know of things that might help you.

Otherwise add another name to the posse.

Honeylioness - 10/05/09 01:03 PM

3cats - glad to see you again! It sounds good on the apartment front - though I got a bit choked up at your reaction to a simple stove and sink, then swung towards anger that your son has not made sure you had such basics after all this time. As to teh mom's question about what your son and his family are going to do after the sale - I do not believe that is your matter to resolve. You, or the agent, can let them know what day they have to be out - and if they do not comply then the new owners can call the sheriff.


3catslady - 10/05/09 10:58 PM

To those concerned of "elder abuse"; I think that all the people I have talked to in church and the friends I know, she won't have a chance to push any issue. My GF and her kids and DH are ready to jump on her if anything happens to me that looks funny. And anyway, nothing had better happen to me because I don't have any insurance on me. If I become incapacitated, they have to move. There is no "money tree, or Bank of Mom" any more.

I put my sister on my checking account so she can pay my bills should I not be able to. I also intend to leave them a dollar in my will and the rest of the money, if there is any, will go to pay off my girlfriend. She loaned me a sum a few years ago and never asked for it back. I think I would have a better chance of proving abuse than she would have of defending herself.

[Honeylioness]

Honeylioness - 10/05/09 01:03 PM

hmmm.... it POURED all day Saturday, the perfect day to stay at home and deal with paperwork etc. But of course Ms. Frauline wanted to go to the Mall *RME*. Fortunately she wanted to go with a friend - so I only had to drive them up there, they then went roller skating afterwards, and the other father picked them up around 11:00 pm. This upcoming weekend she is catching a bus Friday morning to go to Niagara Falls and will not be back until late Monday night. As much as I enjoy her I am looking forward to some alone time in my own house.

financially aware - I also am 100000000% against declawing for cats. Although the last three cats I adopted from either shelters or private parties had all been declawed. Jericho is still traumatized seven years later and freaks if you even look as though you are THINKING about touching his front paws. I also worry that in case they were to get outside (mine are all indoor cats due to the busy road that runs along one side of my complex) they are without a defense tool and could not even climb a tree to get away from a dog. Just my 2 cents

teh mom - In my office we do still get seasonal cards from vendors and such during the year - not just at Christmas. And for several years now I keep my eyes open for ones with nice covers that I can either cut into random shapes, or shapes I can cut out to use as gift tags on presents. I even purchased an inexpensive pair of scissors with scalloped blades so the "tags" look a bit more customized, then a hole puncher and a piece of ribbon or string and I have not only a free tag, but I am recycling as well! Another source of free gift tags are old calendars - some we get from vendors, or the electric company, some I buy at the end of January from a local bookstore for $1 a piece. The pictures can be cut into segments of random design or perhaps yield up to 8 separate images for tags. For example - a landscape could be cut to feature tags of a mountain, wildflowers, a single tree, clouds with a bird flying, or part of a stream.

[Honeylioness]

Honeylioness - 10/06/09 10:08 AM

financially_aware2012: I haven't decided if we should get a st0ner kitty. I need to research catnip before deciding my stance.

LOL, actually I am not sure anyone "decides" to get a catnip junkie. Some of my cats have enjoyed the occasional treat but not been too sad if it does not appear more often. Naomi is the first one in a long time who seems to have no self control when it is around. Catmint is in the same genus as catnip but is a milder form. I grow my own in hanging baskets (to keep it out of strike range from the neighborhood cats) - it is also useful medicinally when brewed into a tea as an anxiety reliever and can also ease diarrhea.

Another positive about growing catmint is that rodents, such as mice and rats, are said to dislike the odor of the plants. Homesteaders used to grow it around the doors of their houses and storage sheds to discourage these pests.

Muttley - ahh, the aching ribs. My mother says that in her last trimester with me I seemed to have an affinity for her liver and the rib above it. There were three or four foods that every time she ate them I would be positioned to kick her liver/rib area .... every single time. She didn't know if it was because I liked the items or hated them. Either way she gave them up in self defense. With my brother, all 9 pounds of him, she swore he was going to get a concussion from beating his head against her lower ribs.

When my SIL was pregnant with their first she could occasionally be seen with a loose fist rapping the top of her belly and telling the baby to "Knock it off knucklehead ... no cracking a rib!!"

Sharing the Simple Lifestyle: Honeylioness, Hokey smokey, are you one busy lady!

Pffffttttt .... busy but not feeling that productive. But on the up side I know now that I can cross "Taxi Driver" off my list of potential new fun careers

Baby story: So, back in the Dark Ages (for those of you under 30) also known as the 1960's my mother was having her kids. Now at the time she got pregnant with me she stood 5'2" and weighed about 125 pounds. And according to all her friends and family during the last two months of her pregnancy she was "enormous". Well no wonder, she popped me out at an even 8 pounds - at a time when most of the other babies in the nursery were between 6 and 7 pounds. AND she did it in under three hours in the hospital and only about 40 minutes of actual labor.

Two years later she is pregnant with my brother. Not only did she go from first cramp/breaking water to actual delivery in just under three hours - but only about 20 minutes of that time was in the hospital. AND he weighed in at 9 pounds. The behemoth of the nursery. In fact my dad had dropped her off at the ER with a nurse, parked the car, crossed the street for a coffee, almost got hit by the OB/GYN's car as he screeched up to the hospital, walked up to Delivery, gave his name and almost dropped the coffee when the Nurse said "Congratulations - it's a boy".

So when Mom lobbied for a third child it's little wonder Dad was not a fan of the idea. Not only was he not keen on the idea of a faster birth and having to do it himself (which was a real possibility) but her told her "Hey, we have one of each. God makes another kind - we'll give it a shot"

[Honeylioness]

Honeylioness - 10/12/09 12:04 AM

Update: 9 NEO / 10 CSD[/b]

Well, my lone weekend is coming to an end. Yesterday I slept in really late then went to the bead store. But honestly, I had to really. Not only there lots of beads on sale from 50-75% off, but they sent me an e-mail with a coupon worth 10% off my whole purchase. Then it was over to JoAnne's for a black trim for my peacock quilt. I am almost done with the embellishments so I can start adding the borders and getting it ready to quilt.

So what else did I do this weekend? Well:

• Cleaned my bedroom
  
• Changed the sheets and got the quilts out as the weather is turning very cold at night
  
• Cleaned out and washed both cat's boxes
  
• Swept all three staircases, living room and dining room
  
• Changed out the quilts displayed on the walls for autumn
  
• Cleaned, filled and checked the wicks for the four kerosene lamps around the house (we have already had two rather extended power outages)
  
• Changed seasonal display in the upstairs hallway for Fall
  
• Put out the fall decorations in the living room, dining room and kitchen
  
• Washed down the kitchen table
  
• Scrubbed the sink
  
• Wiped down the stove and burners
  
• Cleaned out the fridge
  
• Fixed sliding closet door in the guest room
  
• Put away two loads of laundry
  
• Wiped down the entry staircase
  
• Cleaned off my desk: went through all the mail, tossed a bag of paper, sorted out filing, washed down surface and cutting mats, put back miscellaneous sewing supplies and trims
  Updated budget spreadsheet
  
• Paid bills
  
• Balanced check book
  

ETA: Oh, and I swept the back half of the parking lot outside my back door as all the detritus from the dumpsters tends to pile up right in front of my door if I don't keep on top of it.

Whew ... no wonder I'm tired!!!!

[Honeylioness]

SES_Books - 10/13/09 11:52 AM

Sharing-- you are absolutely right. i need to stop reading junk mail, listening to too much "terror" news, pull my head out of the sand and read a novel. I am in a so much better position than so many, I need to appreciate my blessings and not worry them away.


mrslynch - 10/13/09 12:09 PM

vent/rant/whatever--lately, i have realized the true cost of my debt. i do not like my co-workers or the environment where i work. it's toxic and it's attacking my soul. i work my full-time job (please no comments on how i should be grateful that i have a job--i am glad to be employed) because i need the paycheck and the health insurance and because my husband does not make enough money for us to live on one income (please bear in mind that the situation would still apply if dh was miserable at his job. i don't make enough money for us to live on one income).

if we did not have debt and made smarter choices, i would have more options. i hate not having options. it's stifling and frustrating. and all of my misery is directly related to dumb financial decisions that we made early in our living together and early in our marriage(let's not even discuss dh's student loans. while i don't begrudge him the loans or the education, the reason he has them is ridiculous and makes me angry every time i pay the bill). i know that hindsight is 20/20 but i never thought that paying for my debt would come in the form of anything other than a check. rant over. and i'm sorry for ranting; i'm just not in a good mental place lately.


Honeylioness - 10/13/09 12:22 PM

Vegas - I am trying not to be too jealous or bummed that I cannot be there with you. Did I see mention at one point about a get together here on the East Coast again?

R2B2 - You have MORE .... Oh no, TT is back?? so where did he disappear to last month and more importantly, who was stupid enough to let him back IN? Although I am leaning toward's SES's theory - he either has incriminating photos of someone at the firm, or he is REALLY good at ... ummm .... performing certain physical acts of oral gratification

Okay, I have a confession to make so get a drink or some chocolate and take a deep breath.

I am really a man.





GOTCHA!!! Sorry, but what I have been struggling with is something I just have preferred to hide from and even now, facing it only on screen has me twitching.

You see, I have been trying to follow the conversations between Sharing and SES thinking "Okay, I can learn something here and perhaps help improve my own skills in the area of investing" But the sad truth is, I don't get it. I mean, I GET that if you invest money say in a bond that pays X interest for 5 years - well, I can do the math. But choosing mutual funds, buying stocks ... I really do try to follow what people say, but I can almost FEEL my eyes glaze over. It's as though they are speaking a foreign language and I just tune out.

And then I feel stupid, which makes me less motivated to try again. I am not even sure I have the best selection of what is offered in my 401(k) plan.

Which brings up another thing that has really come to haunt me today. I saw the thread on the main board about the woman who was questioning cashing out part of her 401(k) to get out of debt.

I have been that woman. And I did take all together about $22K with taxes out of an old 401(k) to get debt free. This was not recently, it was about 4-5 years ago. Long before I knew all of you or how to manage to live on less or how I could escape from the constant harassing phone calls. But I continue to feel guilty about it. I knew it was somehow a bad idea at the time but I just felt so trapped I was willing to do the financial equivalent of chewing off my own foot.

Which brings me to the second part of my confession: Jealousy. For some reason I have been really struggling the last month or so with feelings of jealousy towards those with truly healthy investments, EFs of 3+ months of living expenses, or being under 40 with $100K in a retirement account. I can never see myself being there and so I start to feel like a fraud for even being here. Not that I want anyone else to feel badly about their accomplishments ...that is in no way my intention. I love living vicariously through you all.

I know logically that being single and not having another income to consider makes a difference, that not even having the option of a company 401(k) until 10 years ago makes a difference. But I also know I screw.ed myself more than once with my use of credit cards and trying to portray a lifestyle I in no way could afford. And so I feel like I am failing - failing to ever be able to retire, or pay off the condo, or afford to adopt or have a child.

I just don't know how I will ever start to feel as though I am getting ahead and not just keeping my head above the water line.

Sorry to be such a wet blanket, but I had to come clean because I was starting to feel like a liar for being here at all.

Thanks for listening.


teh mom - 10/13/09 12:33 PM

questioning cashing out part of her 401(k) to get out of debt.

Honey-me too! Only it was my DH who cashed it out, I just went along with it.


teh mom - 10/13/09 12:36 PM

Honey-see my last two post, you are not a failure or a fraud. You is with me! We now have our "acts" together, and we can do better, starting.....NOW!


SingleMom - Ky - 10/13/09 12:43 PM

I really do try to follow what people say, but I can almost FEEL my eyes glaze over. It's as though they are speaking a foreign language and I just tune out.

Honey - I feel exactly the same way and must confess that there are times when I completely skip those messages. Sometimes I just cannot bring myself to try to comprehend the text. And believe me - I am no where near having that healthy of an EF or retirement and even though I am younger (35 in a few weeks) there is no way that I will accumulate what I am "supposed" to have by the time I'm 40. So I will just keep plugging away little by little and realize that something is better than nothing. Just wanted to let you know that you are not alone!


MuttleynFelix - 10/13/09 12:54 PM

Honey & teh mom-

questioning cashing out part of her 401(k) to get out of debt.

Honey-me too! Only it was my DH who cashed it out, I just went along with it.My DH did the same thing and since we hadn't combined finances; I didn't argue. A year later when we had more debt than before was when I put my foot down and said this isn't working for me. So, yeah we are textbook as to why you do not cash out retirement to get out of debt. And yes my DH is 44 with $10k in his retirement right now. Of course, I'll still be working when he is retired. He has a real mental block about retirement because his dad did not live that long.


dividend - 10/13/09 01:15 PM

honey - don't beat yourself up. Have a sheep: Black Sheep, because that silly icon makes me laugh. I think we all have times where we share our strengths that maybe really help someone, and then later feel like some kind of fraud when we think about our past or current foibles, like, who are we that other people should listen to us? I've been reading and listening more passively this month, thinking that nothing I have to say could possibly be relevant, could possible help anyone else.

You should know how much of an inspiration you can be to the rest of us sometimes, and what a brave thing you're doing with your exchange student. And some of the things you said to me last month helped me out a lot. If you had perfect money management skills and were completely 100% together right right now, you wouldn't need us, and we wouldn't relate to you. You'd be somewhere on YM dispensiving advice from on high like WCP or something.


startsmart - 10/13/09 01:47 PM

It's as though they are speaking a foreign language and I just tune out.

I think to some extent is really is a foreign language. Consider this, if you were hanging out in a mechanic's shop and the workers were discussing the pistons and plugs and all that jazz would you feel inadequate? I mean, we all drive cars so we should know how they work, right? For me it's enough to know how the gas cap works, how to drive it to my destination and the simple stuff like changing the oil. A good mechanic will find your problem and explain it in a simple manner.

When I had my Lexus (devil car from the underworld) I had to replace the axle. They told me the boot which covers key joints was cracked allowing in snow and crud and a lot of junk that would destroy the joint that held my wheel to the body of the car Auto. The axle came as one piece and if I didn't replace it one day the wheel would detach and I would go crash boom. Now I can't tell you how to put on an axle but I understood that explanation.

To me all those funds work the same way. If you're in the business (and thank Zeus I'm not) then you do need to know target optimization and estimated ROI and inflation targets. But if you're like most people you need to know how to get from point a to point b. A good money manager is like your GPS, they give you the path based on what you want.

For example, to get to Vegas it would probably be cheapest for me to drive. But it would take longer and possibly hurt my back. So I'm flying. A good money manager will help you choose investments that meet your goals. Lots of buying and selling or very little? Big, medium or small risk? Daily market updates or a quarterly statement? Throw money in once a year or every week?

And then I feel stupid, which makes me less motivated to try again. I am not even sure I have the best selection of what is offered in my 401(k) plan.

Which brings up another thing that has really come to haunt me today. I saw the thread on the main board about the woman who was questioning cashing out part of her 401(k) to get out of debt.

Honey, I'm a big believer in forgiveness but often the hardest forgiveness to offer and accept is to (and from) ourselves. Every single woman or man on this thread can point to several mistakes, some bigger than others, some long lasting and irreversible.

I have been that woman. And I did take all together about $22K with taxes out of an old 401(k) to get debt free. This was not recently, it was about 4-5 years ago. Long before I knew all of you or how to manage to live on less or how I could escape from the constant harassing phone calls. But I continue to feel guilty about it. I knew it was somehow a bad idea at the time but I just felt so trapped I was willing to do the financial equivalent of chewing off my own foot.

Part of forgiving yourself is knowing that you made the best decision you could at the time. You know differently now. You have more options. What does beating yourself up accomplish?

Which brings me to the second part of my confession: Jealousy. For some reason I have been really struggling the last month or so with feelings of jealousy towards those with truly healthy investments, EFs of 3+ months of living expenses, or being under 40 with $100K in a retirement account. I can never see myself being there and so I start to feel like a fraud for even being here. Not that I want anyone else to feel badly about their accomplishments ...that is in no way my intention. I love living vicariously through you all.

The green eyed monster really has a bad rep. He's a nasty bugger when we let jealousy turn to bitterness, certainly, but there's also a positive aspect. When I read the Pioneer Woman blog I'm totally jealous of the beautiful pictures that woman turns out. How she cooks. Working with those hottie ranchers all day. I used that as motivation to try one of her recipes. (an aside: I was blown away! Totes buying her cookbook) Then I started researching new cameras so I can take my photography to the next level. Invested the time. Saved the money. Bought the camera. Still working on the hot ranchers though.

My point is you can't go back to under 40 yo and suddenly have six figures in retirement. You can't become unsingle without a trip to the courthouse. I know you have an idea of where you want to be, the life you want to live. Let some of that jealousy motivate you to get there.

I know logically that being single and not having another income to consider makes a difference, that not even having the option of a company 401(k) until 10 years ago makes a difference. But I also know I screw.ed myself more than once with my use of credit cards and trying to portray a lifestyle I in no way could afford. And so I feel like I am failing - failing to ever be able to retire, or pay off the condo, or afford to adopt or have a child.

I know I'm just a day short of turning 25 and thus seemingly have "all the time in the world" but everyone feels they should have accomplished more by now. I have a cousin six months older than me with four kids, a husband and a great career. One thing that helps is to imagine the things I want fitting into my life now. If I got married I can see myself living in this duplex. Sure, I'd love to have the giant house in the country, well behaved dogs frolicking in the yard, sunflower fields to the west, your cooking talent and hair braided by birds in the morning by the time I'm married and have kids. But it's not necessary, it's a dream from a Disney movie!

Anne proves that you can fit another human in your condo. Sure it's an adjustment but not insurmountable. Honey, if you want to adopt then start the research on tax credits, fill out the applications, start saving for the home visits and fees. You don't need to be perfect to adopt or have a kid. You don't need to be debt free, a size 0, Mother Teresa or have the patience of a saint. Just be you and any kid will be lucky to have you in his/her life.

I just don't know how I will ever start to feel as though I am getting ahead and not just keeping my head above the water line.
Sorry to be such a wet blanket, but I had to come clean because I was starting to feel like a liar for being here at all

.

As long as you're not a wet Snuggie. Just kidding, but I do think those things are weird. I'll have to re-check the first page but I'm pretty sure we're all here to improve in some way or another. There's no income requirement, age limit, financial investments exam or IQ test. We're all just people. Never, ever, ever feel that you don't belong here.


sapphire12 - 10/13/09 02:10 PM

honey -- give yourself a break. You have seen the error of your ways, which is why you are here. You no longer feel the need to live a fraudulent life. Quite frankly you are busy doing things that you love. You quilt, you have Anne, you are good at your job, you are active in the condo association , you are surrounded by friends here and in MA. While you have not actually given birth to a child, you have been part of the village for several, including the two students you welcomed into your house. The villagers play a vital role in the nurturing and instruction of those who follow us.

While taking money out of a 401(k) is advisable only for extreme cases, the guilt that you feel will mean you are not likely to ever make that decision again. To quote Dave Ramsey, "We've all done stupid." As long as you are here you have time to do what you can do to make your retirement years and these current years fulfilling. Life is about choices and consequences. Sometimes, we don't always get the desired results. More times than not, I'd say you've gotten it right. I'm sure sharing and SES have the ability to teach this stuff to us all in due time.


dakota4600 - 10/13/09 03:13 PM

Honey- I was a finance major and I skim over the market talk here too. I agree with you it is overwhelming. We have all made mistakes, but we are here because we've learned from them and need a support system to talk us back from the ledge when we start veering off course.


jillbean_1978 - 10/13/09 04:10 PM

Honey- I don't even have any kind of retirement, nor does Dh, and can't even begin to think of getting one any time soon. I want to know what they are talking about but it just sounds like the teacher from charlie brown. However I am hopeful that next year things will get better and we will be able to start something then. Still not convinced that I will need as much as some posters claim. But then again, I am able to live on less than they all do now. I'm sure that makes a huge difference.

Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/13/09 05:09 PM

Honey, You crazy girl! Trust me, we view you as the jewel in our crown for all the amazing things you do! Gosh. Do not feel any remorse. I had to do bankruptcy in 1996/1997 (takes a while to pay back what you can and get your honorable discharge) and trust me, by the end of my teaching career, I wanted to start gouging at my skin with my nails. Oh my, you've a long ways to go to get close to the number of mistakes I've made!


SES_Books - 10/13/09 07:59 PM

To all those intimidated, scared, threatened or just dreaming retirement accounts and assets--no one has it all together.

I did not know about (401k)s, IRAs, TSPs before I was about 35/37. I'm not sure exactly. It was so long ago $2000 was the max you could put into an IRA. I had $75 automatically withdrawn from my biweekly paycheck when I decided to open my IRA. I invested in the only thing I knew about--bank CDs. A couple of years later I had the opportunity to open my 401k/TSP with no matching employer funds. Again auto deposit. My choices were very limited, so not a big chance to screw up. Then I did a really stupid thing, I bought a used car with a credit card. True the rates were better than a bank, but I didn't have the discipline to stop using the card so it took forever to pay the d.amned thing off. That is where I learned to monitor CCs.

I was living paycheck-to-paycheck until I was about 45 and got serious about an EF. I was lucky to have 1.5 months in it. Then I went from bi weekly paycheck-to-paycheck living to a monthly budget. This changed my life. I had a better vision of the overall picture. I started to be more attentive and active in my money management. This is when mutual funds became my friends. I have the ability to see bigger trends and do not understand company reports. That is when my eyes glaze over. I try to read and learn but I'm not always very successful. My biggest "doing something right" happened about five years before I retired. My arthritis started impacting me more and I realized I should probably plan and prepare for the earliest retirement I would be eligible for.

I calculated what my approximate retirement income would be and
started living on that amount and saving the rest. I made some very lucky choices coming out of the last recession and did very well. Most of the money for the kitchen renovation came from an inheritance from my mother and my EF--which is now back to $538. I do not believe in all those numbers that are being thrown around. I currently live on about 2/3 of the amount I needed before I retired--because I paid off my car and house BEFORE I retired. My overall financial plan is not based on dollar amounts because they fluctuate. I have one years income in laddered CDs at a local bank (return almost zip-but safe),

I have one years income in a government bond fund(again SAFE), 1/2 years income in an auto repair and eventual replacement fund (I want to build this fund), I had 1/2 years income in my EF. Have to start working on that! Each year in retirement I will add an additional 6 months income to my bond fund from my other mutual funds. My dream is to have 5 years worth of income outside my bonds, CDs, auto fund, and EF. Still working on that. That will supplement my pension just fine. Of course, I don't plan any world cruises.

What all if this drivel is saying is this, we all do dumb, but keep trying and take advantage of the years after 45-50 when you are in your maximum earning years. It helps to have a vision of your goal, not what some article, planner, or pundit wants your goal to be.


Sheila in Cali - 10/13/09 08:49 PM

Honey: We have done two stupid money things- the retirement fund withdrawal and the "home equity loan" to pay off bills. Yeah neither one worked for long.


3catslady - 10/13/09 10:26 PM

Honey, I am 62. 5 years ago my Mother died. I wasted away that money, $22k. 3 years ago I lost my job, one that I loved very much, except for the management. I took out all my 401k and blew it, $19k. And here I am almost a year after meeting all of you and no longer living paycheck to paycheck. I have a small EF and I have paid off a cc, a bank loan, a car loan and all at least 3 months ahead of time because of what I have learned here.

Do you think I feel jealous of all of you? You bet your sweet bippy I do. You are all younger than I am so where was my brain when this was coming down? But I also know that that green eyed monster is not gong to keep me from enjoying every one of you and learning more and more from you all. It is there to keep me on track with what I need to do to live. Before I was just existing and not enjoying anything. Now I enjoy just being myself and not having to buy friendship because I have more than I have had in my lifetime. Why? Because I left my guard down and talked to you and you accepted me as I am. Somebody on here said that friends don't visit you in jail, they are sitting beside you saying, "didn't we have one h3ll of a good time".


MittenKitten - 10/13/09 11:11 PM

3cats made me cry.... Honestly I am very proud of how far you have come in a short period of time. You and the others are why I continue to keep track of this thread (even if I do miss deadlines).

Honey: I once heard someone say "You do the Best you can with what you have" and I have held this one in my heart. I haven't always made the best decisions BUT I have always tried to make the best ones.

Honestly other then mortgages I am a woman in black, NOT because my family was, all of them are NOT. BUT I grew up in a dysfunctional household to get that way. I for all intents and purposes raised myself and my father being a S0B and always saying we had no money and asking for a good explanation (he is a retired cop so his grilling was NOT fun) of why one needed money as a child when you asked for it as he bl3w TONS of money on his girlfriends (and yes this was while he was married and with my mother) and toys made me go the other way.

So look at those of us in better financial places as a resource for when you need it who will look out for your bests interests if you ever need it. If you don't need that then we are your personal cheering squad for the accomplishments you DO make.

If you mess up hey we will be willing to tell you to pick yourself up, mop those tears and get back at it. All while sending prayers and helping with any advice we can give that may help.

Also while you may not be where you want to be, where would you be if you hadn't started figuring it out. Where will you be in 10 years compared to where you are now IF you hadn't gotten a clue?

Okay off soapbox now.


reeneejune - 10/13/09 11:24 PM

Honey – Oh dear! If you’re a fraud, then I’m a con artist! I have nothing in retirement, nothing in savings, I’m living with family (because I can’t live on my own), and I’ve still got about 200% of this year’s income in debt to deal with (about $20,000 in total debt, including student loans, I’ll only make about $10,000 total this year). We’re all here because we’re improving. Your wonderful lists and advice have helped so many.


nitza19 - 10/14/09 02:36 AM

Honey - Re: investing, read the book "The Bogleheads' Guide to Investing." I know it has a really weird name, and it's a little biased toward mutual funds, but it explains so much, in really clear, simple terms, and you don't have to already know things in order to read it (which is why I started my reading with it). In fact I went through it twice. After just that one book I felt about a hundred times smarter when talking about investments or retirement I was even able to look at DF's retirement choices and know what they all meant! What a huge relief for me. "The Only Investment Guide You'll Ever Need" is also a good one, but start with the Boglehead one first. The second one, I felt, occasionally assumed that you'd know a certain term or something, and honestly when I first started learning I knew absolutely nothing.

Re: the rest of your post, please do not feel bad for one second. If anything, I think you voiced a feeling that most of us have had from time to time. I can tell you that I spent a lot of my early "racing" months feeling jealous too My friends (and DF) all made so much more than me, and had retirement portfolios and no debt, and they could all seem to handle any emergency without flinching, or take time off whenever they wanted, and they never worried about money. (I suppose it is important to mention here, by way of explanation, that DF's and my finances are 100% separate, and I stubbornly insisted on that from the beginning and handled all my own debt with my own little salary.)

I'm doing much, much better now than I was when I came to WIR (sounds like you are, too), but my puny little retirement fund is still well under one year's worth of salary, and honestly about 75% of what's in there has been put in there within this last one year. If I hadn't gotten myself into stupid situations with credit cards earlier, there could be a TON more in there now, and teaching this high school kid about how many jillion dollars he'll have in retirement is kind of awesome because it feels like he'll have a leg up that I never had, but it also makes me kick myself for not figuring it out sooner

I often go through periods (even now, cc free!) where I feel like no matter what I do there is never going to be enough money. Like with all of the salary I make for the rest of my life it'll still never be enough. I know that's insane and panicky and ridiculous, but it does still pop up from time to time. It embarrasses me to even feel that way, when I know things could be so much worse. In fact they *were* so much worse, even for me, even a year ago! But I guess I was inspired by your honesty Does that mean I'm a wet blanket too? lol.

But really, you have sooo many frugal tips and tricks (seriously, you astound me), and financial things happen in a snowball way in the good direction, too. But snowballs start out small It will get bigger and pick up speed, I feel certain!

ETA: Just read what startsmart wrote, that eloquent little smarty pants. Man she always knows what to say. Makes you want to hit her with a pillow sometimes (Also, start, LMAO @ "still working on the hot ranchers" hahaha)

Sharing - you had to do bankruptcy? Wow. And all the things you've been able to pull off! You really do never cease to inspire and amaze me. I look up to you so much, really. Now don't get all silly and self-deprecating and deflect that compliment either, I know you want to Yay for extra kitty food! (or should I say... purr!)

Dont mind if my voice is a little muffled as I say that, since I am currently laying on my back on the sofa with my laptop propped up on my knees and I have two slightly-plumping kitties crammed onto the little space between my face and my keyboard. So tightly crammed, in fact, that one of them is pressed up against the bottom half of my face so I have to look over her to see. In fact I had to push her down a bit because when she first laid down she was covering my nose, too. I mean I know they want to be warm, but don't suffocate me! Yeesh! I figured, with your fish-breath wake-up call, you'd understand.

SES - thank you so much for posting your story. I was riveted, and so inspired. You have your ducks so neatly in a row now, it was fascinating reading how you got there. I want to be just like you! (Except... can you just live upstairs and cook for me? *wink*) I also think that both you and Honey have a huge advantage in that it seems like you can live for a year on about $100, doing all of these things I have no idea how to do, like making cleaning products, and baking, and sewing, and... oh, I can't even remember all of the things, much less do them! Your retirement dollars will go miles and miles - I have a lot to learn in that regard!

Bugs2816 - 10/14/09 11:58 AM

Honey: I really don't have much to say, but stay strong and positive and you will be amazed at what life can do for you. I didn't know ANYTHING about investing when I first started either. All I knew was that I was scared to death to give some company (any for that matter) my money to invest FOR me. I started out at one company and they put me in a target fund (I didn't even know what a target fund was at the time). I didn't ask Q's, just said...Okay ???D, I guess, whatever you people think I should do. Then, I left that job and rolled it over to another company. That company didn't make any since to me either. That's when I decided that I needed to read, read, read and soak it all in. No matter how confusing it was to me, I MADE myself learn.

10 years later, (which is right now), I jumped off the "target funds" and opened my own account to buy STOCKS. I'm still learning about them, but....I couldn't make myself wait any longer as everything was at such a low price. And believe me, they are not doing top notch either, but....what the hey, at least I'm in the "game" . I also didn't know anything about an EF, until I came on these boards. I always got paid, spent, spent, spent, until the next paycheck came along. I now have an EF and it has come into some good use. No more taking out personal loans to get what we "needed". If we need something now, we have the money. And for that.... I say THANX to each and every one of you for the encouragement, the wisdom and the push to get it all started and keeping it all going!!! I am so glad and grateful that I have found you!! Again, THANX!!

[Honeylioness]

nitza19 - 10/14/09 02:53 AM

And I wanted this one to be its own special, separate message.. (No, I was not just long-winded enough to take up 3 posts.. this time ):

HAPPY 25TH BIRTHDAY, STARTSMART!

You inspire me, you impress me, you entertain me, you support me, and I am SO GLAD that the last year has introduced your wit and WISDOM into my life. Seriously, how could such a wee lil' thing be so wise? And so with it? And so blisteringly funny? Not to mention a work ethic that every person in this country (shoot, maybe the world) could stand to take a page out of. I know that I am a more productive and harder-working person because of having (albeit electronically) met you. You might not believe that, but it is 100% true. And I know my financial goals are in a better place because of that push you've given me. So THANK YOU, and you can bet I am celebrating all day long tomorrow as International Startsmart Day.

Who's with me, ladies??


startsmart - 10/14/09 03:10 AM

ha! I took red2black's bday greeting as permission to open my package from her a little early love, love, love the DVDs! and the card from the boys was adorable thanks for being so awesome! Then I started playing around with my camera and ladies.... I'm in love. totally and completely in love. forget the spending apprehension. If I had to do it again I would! But probably won't need to because I'd like to be buried with this camera. It is my precious. Can't wait for the sun to come up so I can skip around town and get some new shots after the rainstorm. Will try, very very hard, to sleep despite the excitement.


startsmart - 10/14/09 03:13 AM

I will force myself to not read these messages tonight because then I'll cry... tomorrow after work for sure! OH YAY because the camera is my precious I'll most certainly have a longer life just like Gollum! Better start saving more for retirement


Honeylioness - 10/14/09 10:51 AM

Startsmart - you have a great day young lady!!! I had to laugh at the image of Gollum scampering around Northern CA stroking a camera and calling it "precious". I sent you a gift but he... it mean "it"... got a bit distracted by some wandering cattle. However he did send me a picture for you .. enjoy!!!

[Honeylioness]

Honeylioness - 10/19/09 10:07 AM

Disclaimer - Men think they are soooooooooo funny

My father sent this to me via some of his old Army buddies but I knew you would all appreciate the humor

**********************************

Women at THE ADULT LEARNING CENTER

REGISTRATION MUST BE COMPLETED by Thursday October 30, 2009

NOTE: DUE TO THE COMPLEXITY AND DIFFICULTY LEVEL OF THEIR CONTENTS, CLASS SIZES WILL BE LIMITED TO 8 PARTICIPANTS MAXIMUM.


Class 1

Up in Winter, Down in Summer - How to Adjust a Thermostat
Step by Step, with Slide Presentation.
Meets 4 wks, Monday and Wednesday for 2 hrs beginning at 7:00 PM..

Class 2

Which Takes More Energy - Putting the Toilet Seat Down, or pregnant doging About It for 3 Hours?
Round Table Discussion.
Meets 2 weeks, Saturday 12:00 for 2 hours.

Class 3

Is It Possible To Drive Past a Wal-Mart Without Stopping?--Group Debate.
Meets 4 weeks, Saturday 10:00 PM for 2 hours.

Class 4

Fundamental Differences Between a Purse and a Suitcase--Pictures and Explanatory Graphics.
Meets Saturdays at 2:00 PM for 3 weeks.

Class 5

Curling Irons--Can They Levitate and Fly Into The Bathroom Cabinet?
Examples on Video.
Meets 4 weeks, Tuesday and Thursday for 2 hours beginning at 7:00 PM

Class 6

How to Ask Questions During Commercials and Be Quiet During the Program
Help Line Support and Support Groups.
Meets 4 Weeks, Friday and Sunday 7:00 PM

Class 7

Can a Bath Be Taken Without 14 Different Kinds of Soaps and Shampoos?
Open Forum.
Monday at 8:00 PM, 2 hours.

Class 8

Health Watch--They Make Medicine for PMS - USE IT!
Three nights; Monday, Wednesday, Friday at 7:00 PM for 2 hours.

Class 9

I Was Wrong and He Was Right!--Real Life Testimonials.
Tuesdays at 6:00 PM Location to be determined.

Class 10

How to Parallel Park In Less Than 20 Minutes Without an Insurance Claim.
Driving Simulations.
4 weeks, Saturday's noon, 2 hours.

Class 11

Learning to Live--How to Apply Brakes Without Throwing Passengers Through the Windshield.
Tuesdays at 7:00 PM, location to be determined

Class 12

How to Shop by Yourself.
Meets 4 wks, Tuesday and Thursday for 2 hours beginning at 7:00 PM.

Class 13

How to Fight Cerebral Atrophy--Remembering To Take a List To The Store, Avoiding Separate Trips for Each Item Needed.
Cerebral Shock Therapy Sessions and Full Lobotomies Offered.
Three nights; Monday, Wednesday, Friday at 7:00 PM for 2 hours.

Class 14

The Stove/Oven-- What It Is and How It Is Used.
Live Demonstration.
Tuesdays at 6:00 PM, location to be determined.


Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/19/09 10:19 AM

Honey, OMG. 1. The pies. Too, too magnificent. OMG. 2. Your DOD's "Adult Ed for Women." Too, too funny! OMG. I am ROTFLMAO. I know I should be outraged. But...hilarious! 3. Your E-mail. OMG. Too, too gorgeous! Wow, wow, wow! Remind me again, ladies, how we got lucky enough to get Honeylioness on our thread? Mittenkitten must just have that kind of power.


Honeylioness - 10/19/09 03:05 PM

Aww geez....... *shuffling my feet* ... You made me blush Sharing. However I am glad to get your nice words about my accidental peacock quilt. Perhaps only another quilter can appreciate a half finished project

Now, to blow my own horn for a moment.

Remember I did the Bake Sale in the Spring that Management thought was a "dorky" idea but we made $620 which the company matched 100% towards a local food bank? Well today was another of my "dorky" ideas - A Harvest Lunch with people bringing in pot luck dishes. Well, we had to add a SIXTH table to hold all the food which included:

Corn Chowder
Rice Salad with lemon dressing
Meatballs
Baked Beans
Lasagna
Quiche
Baked Ham
Pasta Salad
Deviled Eggs
Crunchy Oriental Salad
Proscuitto, spinach, & pasta casserole
Wrap sandwiches
Chili
Kielbasa, Cheese and Rice Casserole
Marinara Sauce with Sweet Sausage
Steak tips & Rice Pilaf
Spring Rolls

And assorted Desserts such as Apple pie, pear cranberry torte, chocolate chip bundt cake, reese mini bites, brownies, Apple struedle coffee cake and pizelles

Well, my total so far for another geeky event is $650 which the company will match also - the money again will be going to a local food bank.

When so many in this area are struggling and the food banks are being stretched like crazy it's good to see people are still generous in donating to such a worthy cause.

ETA: Oopps, meant to add that we had asked for a minimum donation of $5 a person, however a lot of people gave significantly more than that. And I had two whole pies left over - so I sold them to two members of the Board.


Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/19/09 08:51 PM

Grrr. This oil painting is a struggle. The cat looks more folk art and not like my Nugget, though not not, if that makes any sense. Serves me right for going too long without painting in oils. I'm going to keep at it, though.

SES_, big excitement. "Black Beauty" came into the garage this evening while I was painting. My, he's just one great big kitty cat. He has gorgeous green eyes. He's every bit of seventeen pounds. Very large for a DSH male.


SES_Books - 10/19/09 09:05 PM

Sharing--Has Black Beauty acknowledged you yet- or is he still doing the "ignore the elephant in the room" routine? One of my friends swears that black cats, once they accept you, make the best and most affectionate cats. Judging by Onyx I have to agree. Will you post a photo of the painting of Nugget when you are done? Which reminds me, Honey, would you post a photo of your quilt? It sounds amazing.


Honeylioness - 10/19/09 10:38 PM

SES - Umm ...okay, I am usually rather gun shy about showing my work at all but I know you will all be kind.

Keep in mind that this peacock quilt top is not finished yet.

Full picture

Detail 1

Detail 2


3catslady - 10/19/09 11:01 PM

Honey; That quilt is beautiful. I love the details. I can't wait to see the finished product.


SES_Books - 10/19/09 11:23 PM

Honey--your quilt is absolutely georgous! Whatever brought this idea to mind-and execution? Truly an original piece of art.


cdarrow26 - 10/20/09 08:14 AM

Honey Your quilt is absolutely beautiful! My mom is an avid quilter and even owned her own quilt shop for many years when she still lived here in the NE. I have a great admiration for quilts, but, unfortunately, I never got the "bug". I love looking at quilts, fabrics, etc. but I'm just not creative at all **sigh**.


kath74 - 10/20/09 08:55 AM

Honey - oh my goodness, salivating from pies and quilt viewing! You've inspired me to get back to quilting, I'm about 3 baby quilts behind right now, I need to get on that!


Honeylioness - 10/20/09 09:20 AM

Ahhhhh, thanks for the nice words about my half finished quilt.

SES - I am actually going to name this piece "Accidental Peacock" because of how he came to be. A couple of years ago during the Vermont Quilt Festival I attended a class teaching a method of constructing designs with soft curves. The pieces were cut free hand, no templates, no straight lines, no pattern to follow - for a Type A person this means lots of stress!

The teacher had developed this method to get more organic looking and realistic landscapes - waterfalls, oceans, meadows etc. We were to bring one focus fabric and several coordinating fabrics. My focus fabric is the black Japanese floral one you see.

So as the day goes along everyone else is using more earth and water colors and they are getting rivers, and canyon walls etc. And mine is this blaze of different colors. And I notice something else - their work is tending to come together in long strips of approximate linear qualities - and mine is turning - or rather arcing. To be honest this did not bother me really. I see taking classes as not necessarily as a way to copy a teacher's piece of work, but as a way to expand my skills, learn a new technique or just an excuse to buy more fabric (*snort* yeah, like a quilter NEEDS an excuse). I have let go of the need to make and finish the featured work - especially when I find the class did not really speak to me.

So after VQF I have this "thing" tacked up to my design wall - I like the colors, still happy with how they work together and not willing to just toss it and move on to the next project. Of course I have NO idea what I would ever DO with this "blob". A year later my friend R was over visiting, stared at the "thing", walked over to the wall, unpinned the blob and rotated it 90 degrees to the left and said "There, it's a peacock" And dang if she wasn't right!!!!

And so the blob became a peacock. And my little brain said "Hmmmm, I think he is too plain, let's jazz him up a bit" and thus began my odyssey into the world of beads because I already had the silk ribbons and embroidery floss from past decades of doing that kind of needlework. I like the plain unrelieved black of the peacock figure against the gaudiness of the "feathers" and will be using the oriental floral fabric as my border with another inset technique I learned from the same teacher. Hard to explain but I will post a picture when it is done.

So there you have it - the story of my "Accidental Peacock" ((Probably more than you had ever wanted to know ))

Sharing - sorry you are struggling with the painting - does this mean you have not yet finished your State Flower quilt?? Glad to see though that you had a visit from the neighborhood big boy. He sounds like my Abraham.

Cards/Secret Santa - I am in this year also and second SES's suggestion as to cost and/or re-purposing!


Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/20/09 10:45 AM

Honey, I read your post over and over, right in the moment with your artistic journey. Gosh, I'll bet you're one inspiring teacher of all things quilt related. Your post made me long for an art retreat. I haven't found what I'm looking for in our little area. The quilt group of 30 is comprised of 15 divas and 15 mousies, if you catch my drift. I'm looking for a group of happy ladies without agendas who just want to do art/arts and crafts and laugh their heads off.


SES_Books - 10/20/09 12:15 PM

Honey--The back story is almost as fascinating as the quilt and should be displayed whenever the quilt is.

[Honeylioness]

18 October 2009[/u]


I am so tiredddddddddddddd. What is up with me having two startsmart weekends on a row when she is off in Vegas ogling cute bartenders and laughing more than people should be allowed to???

Just today I:

* picked up Anne from choir practice, drove her to another host fmaily so they could take her to the group meeting
* did three loads of laundry
* went to Costco to pick up drinks and supplies for Monday's lunch
* Went to the Farm to get apples for the pies (about 20 pounds) and corn stalks for decoration
* had to run back to the grocery store for bowls since the only option at Costco came in a 400 count package
* Went to the office to unload four large cases of soda and all the other supplies
* went to several localtions behind stores and office buildings in the area to colled cutting of branches and bittersweet for decorations
* Dropped off three large bags of paper at the recycling boxes
* met a man there dropping off books into the donation box, wound up with a copy of the Fanny Farmer cookbook for helping him
back home to unload truck with my purchases including 3 boxes of cat litter (44 pounds each)
* Made a double batch of pie pastry
* prepared the bottom crusts for six pies and prepped the rounds for the pie tops
* Had to run back to the other family's home to pick up Anne, wound up getting caught in a conversation and trying to be polite
* realised on the way home I had not eaten all day
* Heard from Anne that she had been invited to go with the other family to the Science Musuem, but in typical teenager fashion she had only that much info, called the parents to get the other information and then called again to arrange pick up for tomorrow
* had a "put my foot down" talk with the girl and told her she was not going anywhere if she did not vaccuum her room tonight
* Dropped off paper recycling

[Honeylioness]

22 October 2009 02:13 PM

phitigirl - My grandfather was in Hospice before he died and we had a wonderful experience with the majority of people we dealt with.

In the broadest sense I see hospice as a re-discovered way of doing what most people and families did instinctually for centuries - recognize that nature will take it's course and that death is just the natural conclusion to our lives. Families used to be able to have their elderly parents live with them until the end, which is not possible for a lot of us anymore. It is about letting the patient chose how much, or how little, medical interference they want in the process, while at the same time giving people the chance and avenues to say "Goodbye" in the way that means the most to them. All while making sure the patient is as physically and emotionally comfortable as possible.

Sometimes I think as a society we get too wrapped up in what science CAN do and try to ignore the question of whether it SHOULD be done at that moment.

With my grandfather (Papa) this meant an end to the daily blood draws and catheters. No restrictions on his diet, he ate what sounded good to him at any time. Although the last few days he really wanted nothing to eat at all. We had no set visiting hours and even had a cot brought into his room so someone was with him at all times. We chose to take an active role in his physical care and it became for me one of the most incredible expressions of love and honor towards him. Even giving him a sponge bath became an act of love filled with incredible tenderness.

The challenges we faced were with the facility he was placed in. It was primarily a nursing home and they had not as much experience with hospice as I would have liked. So the first day or so they would come in being all perky and talk about exercise and rehabilitation - until a family member would take them by the arm, march them out of the room, and have to remind them AGAIN that Papa was not going to be doing any of that. And to stop trying to push eating their scheduled meals, and YES we WOULD be bringing him a Fuzzy Navel if he asked for it, or fries, or ice cream. We had to remind one aide in particular that we really did not give a rat's a$$ what the fat/salt/cholesterol content of an item was. He was dying, and we were determined his last meals were not going to be flavorless mush unless he asked for it.

Some of the staff thought we had "given up" on him - but we were doing what HE wanted. To pass without stress or pain surrounded by his family, because we had all come to terms with the fact that his heart was failing. We also took the opportunity to gather as a family in his room and take turns telling him what he had taught us, what we would miss, what wonderful impact he had made on our lives and who we were. It sounds as though it would be morbid, but it truly was a wonderful few hours where even the air itself seemed to vibrate with love and peace. At one point he asked to hear a specific Christmas Carol, and my mother sang it to him. He knew we had not given up, and if he had wanted to rail and fight we would have helped. But he was tired, and ready, and lonely for his wife who had passed 10 years earlier. I think he just needed to hear from us that while we would miss him terribly, it was okay. He had done a great job and we would make it. That he had permission to go when he was ready.

The night his Spirit passed will always remain one of my most cherished memories - even though his body did not cease functioning until several hours later I knew almost to the moment when his soul said goodbye to his mortal being.

If you would like to discuss any of this further I can be reached at quiltinglioness @ juno dot com

[Honeylioness]

jillbean_1978 - 10/21/09 03:49 PM

Hello ladies!!! I hope everyone is doing well.

I'm so mad, scared, confused at our mortgage company right now. I managed to save and send them $400 for the Sept. payment. They put it through to our bank for $900!!!! We are so far in the hole right now. When we should have over $300 in there. So til they research it and correct it we have zero $$$. Me and 2 of the kids are sick. Hopefully we can get over whatever we got without any meds because I can't get any. It will be Monday or Tuesday before this is corrected. I have 2 bills that are past due and need to be paid. My check is direct deposit and Friday it will be taken completely away because of the "error" when it was suppose to be used to pay on the mortgage. I am just sick over this!!!! But what can I do? Nothing. But hope and pray that we find some way to dig our selves out of this huge hole that we are in.

Does anyone know how to keep fevers down without meds? The girls have been sick so much that we are out of fever reducer. A few years ago my niece had a fever and her mom covered her up with a heavy blanket, which caused the fever to go up instead of down, the mom had always done that to get the child to sweat to break the fever. Well my niece ended up having a bunch of seizures. So I know covering them is bad. What do I do? Sorry I know I am probably making no sense right now. I'm just messed up right now.

Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/21/09 09:48 PM

jillbean, Would you be comfortable sharing your offline email address with any of us? You're in my thoughts constantly. I worry that you're not getting enough heat, also. Now this news, how utterly awful. In Latin, there is a phrase, annus horribilus. Just like it sounds....horrible year. Mine was 1995-1996. Trust me, there isn't a girl on this thread who hasn't had one. Trouble after trouble. I think we need a countdown to start to get jillbean safely to 2010.

Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/21/09 09:52 PM

jillbean, It's 70 days, give or take to 2010. Stay with us. It's good to have friends right now.


startsmart - 10/21/09 10:48 PM

I'm so mad, scared, confused at our mortgage company right now. I managed to save and send them $400 for the Sept. payment. They put it through to our bank for $900!!!!

Have you confirmed it's a bank error? 4s can be written to look a lot like 9s. How much is your monthly payment? Isn't it around $600? Will they return the money if you are past due on your mortgage?

When we should have over $300 in there. So til they research it and correct it we have zero $$$.

This is why every d.amn financial expert will tell you to have savings. An emergency fund. THIS IS WHY.

Me and 2 of the kids are sick. Hopefully we can get over whatever we got without any meds because I can't get any.

It's very likely you can't afford any if you have a negative bank balance and no savings. That doesn't mean you can't get any. Talk to your doctor, ask friends, get your children the medicine they need. Stop writing a situation off as hopeless just because the first, most obvious, answer won't work.

I am just sick over this!!!! But what can I do? Nothing. But hope and pray that we find some way to dig our selves out of this huge hole that we are in.

This is where you start to p.iss me off. Seriously, I'm just tired of it. There ARE options but they require that you ACT. Not just hope and pray for some magic genie or fairy godmother. The women on this board and this thread in particular are unfailing helpful. They will guide you to resources, give suggestions and cheerlead each other all the day long. But if you continue to have this "woe is me, all is lost" attitude and fail to recognize the mistakes YOU'VE made to get into this situation I get tired of hearing it.

wvugurl lost her job and keeps working to get her certifications even if it means taking temp assignments she doesn't enjoy. She also will not walk away from a contract because she has integrity. She's not giving up.

reeneejune has been paying 57% of her income to debt and slowing making a difference. When her nanny job didn't work out she found another job. She's looking forward, being honest with BF about her financial situation and continuing to look at housing options. She's not giving up.

sheilainCali moved her family several thousand miles away in order to get a new job for DH and be near family. To the freakin' cold! She sacrificed, dealt with a crazy landlord and has to see family more often than I would like. But instead of complaining she unpacks more boxes, gets her husband off to work and son off to school. She's not giving up.

dakota's son is so young and weak and in the hospital with a viral infection. Dakota has to be at work but is doing what she can to be by his side and make sure he's taken care of. She's not giving up.

kath has been busting her assets trying to sell a property to improve her financial condition. She admits to missing some routine maintenance which unfortunately has an expensive fix. But she's not blaming the mechanic or anyone else. She's taking responsibility and she's not giving up on the situation.

And there are a hundred more stories, some that have been shared and many that have not. Every single day in a hundred ways these women who I admire are facing challenges, recognizing how and why they got there and making changes in their lives. THE DIFFERENCE IS that every time a "disaster" pops up in your life you come here to tell us how it's someone else's fault or someone else needs to solve it for you.

In Latin, there is a phrase, annus horribilus. Just like it sounds....horrible year. Mine was 1995-1996. Trust me, there isn't a girl on this thread who hasn't had one. Trouble after trouble. I think we need a countdown to start to get jillbean safely to 2010

I'm sorry, Sharing, but I have to respectfully disagree. Jill- you will never improve the situations you find yourself in until you take responsibility for your actions and have the willpower and dedication to make the right choices day in and day out for a sustained period of time.

everyone else- feel free to flame me if you like. Or repeat and reinforce what I've said in nicer terms. I can have the subtly of a jackhammer and frankly I don't give a ....


jillbean_1978 - 10/21/09 11:22 PM

Startsmart- It's the mortgage company's error. They took out $900. And no matter how far behind we are on our house payments, they are legally only allowed to take what the check is written for. You can't alter a check can you? No. And no chit I know we SHOULD have an EF....but it's a little late to point that out don't ya think? Really...do you have to point out something that can't be done at this point? I mean if I had an EF then why would I have been posting? You can't just call the doctor's office around here and get medicine. I'm not sure how things are done where you are, but here unless you have an apointment you ain't getting chit. Oh! And they are booked up....can't get in. Go to the ER? For a low grade fever? LOL Right. That's why you have fever reducer medicine when you have kids....so the fever doesn't go up. It's a little lesson you will learn if/when you are mommy. And my friends don't have kids that are as young as mine. It's not safe to give a 2 yr old teen/adult medicine.

And what exactly would you do with this? Walk over to Ohio and DEMAND they fix it? Not likely to happen. I have to wait and do nothing. We called the mortgage company...it's gonna take 2-3 business days to find the error. What do you think I can do til then? Hmmm? I am waiting. We have zero $$. So no I can't go get a bottle of medicine for the 2 yr old. I can give my 10 yr old a half of tylenol. Really, how is the effing mortgage company taking out 900 instead of 400 my fault Startsmart??!?!!?!? I wasn't the one typing in the numbers when they processed that.

And since ALL my posts seem to be all woe is me to you....overlook them! Don't ever read another I type. Then YOU can't get all p!issed because I haven't done exactly like YOU.

red_wagon - 10/21/09 11:25 PM

oh, startsmart. I know I told you this offboard, but you really do remind me of my BFF who was/is always ready to tell me to "s.uck it up" and figure it out, right when I need to hear it. I know both you and CoffeeGirl have done that for me over the past few years, both directly and indirectly. It's nice to come here to vent, to get advice, but it is true that in the end, unless you do something, you're not going to get anywhere. There was along time where I kept paying off and wracking up the same $50 of debt and was getting nowhere. And now I'm over $1500 paid off. Not as good as some, but better than where I was, and I'm learning all the time.

Jillbean, I know what startsmart said will hurt at first, but she has good intentions. I know my first reaction were I you would probably, "What a biotch" but just sit and process and come up with a plan. There has to be SOME way: a shelter? food bank? Sometimes the big picture is overwhelming and you do start to feel as if it's you against the world. So break it down. Keep breathing. Make a plan. I really do hope you and your kids get on the road to health asap.


jillbean_1978 - 10/21/09 11:35 PM

Sharing- my email is jillibean_1978 at hot mail. And thanks. I keep telling my husband as long as we make it through the end of the year we WILL be ok. And we will be ok. And smarter about everything too!!!! Our first year married, LOL, we survived and we will survive this year too. May not be like some people want us to make it but it's the way we are gonna do it! Don't worry about the heat. We went ahead and turned the heat on because DD(10 yrs) got sick. So we are keeping it about 68-69 in here now. Well we were....it's been in the 70's again this week. Indiana weather for ya. Just wait though.....this weekend it will change again. LOL And I think we'll get assistance. I mean we did when DH was working and making $20/hr so now that we are making wayyyy less I am sure we will get it. And I think I read that Obama gave this group a few million or more for this too. But please don't worry too much about little ol' us. I am sure that some other ladies are having a far worse time than us right now. But thanks for caring so much.


beej67 - 10/21/09 11:39 PM

startsmart. It is a little late to be talking about the emergency fund here. I'm not going to flame you for WHAT you've said although I do however find the TONE of your post kind of holier than thou and that honestly doesn't seem like you. You haven't walked in jilli's shoes so IMO you've no right to judge (and yes it does sound like you are). It can be a very scary thing to have children depending on you and to feel the situation is hopeless ... panic can easily set in. Many of us have family we could turn to for help if we are put into such a tight spot, but it's more difficult for the person who doesn't. I agree, people need to do all they can to help themselves, but this should also be a safe place for her to voice her fears. Most all of us have been woe is me at some point or another on here, myself included and tough love is called for sometimes but there is such a thing as velvet gloves.


Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/21/09 11:43 PM

smartstart, Then I will respectfully disagree with you. Firmly.

jillbean, I've walked in your moccasins.


Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/21/09 11:46 PM

jillbean, Just got your contact info. Believe me I care. You and the welfare of your family are as important to me as any family.

smartstart, You need to be sent to your room. I am angry.


Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/21/09 11:50 PM

smartstart,

The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
'Tis mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown;
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God's
When mercy seasons justice. Therefore, J.ew,
Though justice be thy plea, consider this,
That, in the course of justice, none of us
Should see salvation: we do pray for mercy;
And that same prayer doth teach us all to render
The deeds of mercy. I have spoke thus much
To mitigate the justice of thy plea;
Which if thou follow, this strict court of Venice
Must needs give sentence 'gainst the merchant there.

Portia's speech in The Merchant of Venice.

startsmart - 10/21/09 11:53 PM

Startsmart- It's the mortgage company's error. They took out $900. And no matter how far behind we are on our house payments, they are legally only allowed to take what the check is written for. You can't alter a check can you? No.

Companies make mistakes, people make mistakes, banks make mistakes. But you are the one that will suffer because of those errors. I've had companies withdraw a payment twice, I've had checks that cashed when I didn't have the funds (usually when I failed to balance my checkbook). And I LEARNED to keep money as a backup. Did it just appear magically? No. I had to deny myself things I wanted or things that would be fun in order to do that. Do I post on here every weekend about the club or going out? Do I mention my new jackets or books or CDs or movies or any of those things that tempt me but for which I have not budgeted for? Not very often. And only now because I'm financially stable enough to splurge a little.

BTW, the "chit" not cute, not funny.

And no chit I know we SHOULD have an EF....but it's a little late to point that out don't ya think? Really...do you have to point out something that can't be done at this point? I mean if I had an EF then why would I have been posting?

And the women on this board have been kindly suggesting an EF for months. But yeah, it takes sacrifice. You don't want to look at how you got here. You got here, in part, because you did not set aside enough money. Did you ask the mortgage company to make an accounting error? No. Did you have enough savings, any savings, so that your kids could get medicine if they needed it? No.

You can't just call the doctor's office around here and get medicine. I'm not sure how things are done where you are, but here unless you have an appointment you ain't getting chit. Oh! And they are booked up....can't get in. Go to the ER? For a low grade fever? LOL Right. That's why you have fever reducer medicine when you have kids....so the fever doesn't go up. It's a little lesson you will learn if/when you are mommy. And my friends don't have kids that are as young as mine. It's not safe to give a 2 yr old teen/adult medicine.

Stop lashing out like a child. "if/when you are mommy" is irrelevant. This is common sense. There are thousands of families who cannot afford medication for one reason or another and there is help available. I'm not going to research it for you. And yes, I have received samples from a doctor in the past even if I had to make an appointment and set up a payment plan for the deductible that's exactly what I would do. I nannied for six children in one family, I understand dosages and medications so I'm not suggesting you give anything to a 2 year old not designed for a 2 year old.

And what exactly would you do with this? Walk over to Ohio and DEMAND they fix it? Not likely to happen. I have to wait and do nothing. We called the mortgage company...it's gonna take 2-3 business days to find the error. What do you think I can do til then? Hmmm? I am waiting. We have zero $$.

Exactly what people have been suggesting for months: stop spending money on wants and focus on the needs. You went out and got a job after telling us it was impossible. That money was going to help you save more. Are you saving more? I THINK you need to start solving your own problems and stop complaining about them. The attitude of "I am waiting" is indicative of a person who wants and needs someone else to solve her problems.

And since ALL my posts seem to be all woe is me to you....overlook them! Don't ever read another I type. Then YOU can't get all p!issed because I haven't done exactly like YOU.

This isn't about following the "startsmart way" in any form, don't put this back on me. This is about taking some personal responsibility for your life. Did you even read the examples I typed out? Of women who are struggling, who admit to losing hope at times and not knowing where they're going to live or how they're going to pay off a debt? I lost my job in August and as of the end of this month I will have no health insurance. So I'm busting my behind to save several hundreds of dollars to pay for COBRA and, when I'm eligible, to pay for my company's insurance.

It is a sacrifice but I also fully expect that if I come here whining that it's not fair and there's nothing I can do then probably red2black, nitza and Sheila will knock me back on my feet and tell me to suck it up and get a move on. And they do it because they care. Because whining and complaining get you nowhere.

You're not taking any responsibility
You're not interested in changing
You're frustrating those of us on the board who are


startsmart - 10/21/09 11:55 PM

On a much more pleasant note, I have posted the first installment of Vegas pictures on my blog. No images of the ladies yet as I am first seeking their permission via email to post. Thanks for your patience


Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/22/09 12:02 AM

jillbean, You have E-mail.

And now, I am signing out for the night.


Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/22/09 12:16 AM

smartstart, You will stop the attack right now. This is NOT what we are about here.


beej67 - 10/22/09 12:26 AM

I've been with this thread over 2 years but find I can't stay here any longer, guess I'm just too soft.

Good luck to you all - I hope each of you reach your financial goals as well as your life dreams and aspirations.

As for me, I'll be back to make a final post on the midwest racer thread a few months into the new year when I've completed my race. I thank you all for the wonderful support and advice in reaching that outcome. (I will have paid off $25K in <2.5 years - I couldn't have done it without you!)

God Speed.

azmomx3 - 10/22/09 12:42 AM

10 NSD I met my goal and I'm going to take a break for the rest of the year.....


reeneejune - 10/22/09 01:38 AM

Startsmart – While I admire you generally, I have to say that your tone in regards to Jill is upsetting (putting it mildly). As a suggestion, perhaps it’s time to take a step down off the soap box and give yourself some breathing room. I know you aren’t feeling well, and I’d like to think that this overly harsh reaction may have something to do with your own stress level. What I’m, what we’re all trying to get across to you right now is that there’s a time for lectures and a time for a friendly ear (without comment). When sick children are involved, a friendly ear is often a better course of action. As WVU just experienced, a lecture about finances when one is already stressed about finances is not always as helpful as one would like it to be.


reeneejune - 10/22/09 01:42 AM

Jill – I think what Startsmart was trying to get at is that there ARE things you can do. 2-3 business days to correct a bank error? Nope, not ok with me. Talk to a supervisor. Talk to their supervisor. Keep going until you can get someone to take action immediately. As for the meds situation, every community has a free or reduced price clinic, which will help people in dire straits get the basic medications they need. Most hospitals have an outreach program that gives medicine to people in the community in need. Not sure where to go to get help? Try the nearest DHS office, they’re used to directing people to the right programs to get help, even in emergency situations like you’re in.

Sharing – I memorized that speech as a 15 year old, and I’ve kept it with me. Portia is one of my favorite female characters of all time. And the quote is apt today, I think.


nitza19 - 10/22/09 01:45 AM

Ugh... ladies...

Sorry, I wanted to write something brilliantly articulate, inspiring, calming, instructive, or at least coherent. But it doesn't seem to be working. I know people are riled up, and I see each of your points of view, believe it or not. But I am not wise enough nor smart enough nor rich enough nor patient enough to soothe all the sides of this snit. I do hope that you don't leave, beej, nor you azmom (or maybe you just meant you were taking a break from counting NS days, lol). (Not that I want other people to leave, I mean, but they had posted something specifically). Because at least for me what this thread is about is learning from other people and that's been good for me. Although with a mix of people comes a mix of personalities, fuse lengths, and triggers, too, so I guess I have to take the bad (occasional fighting) with the good (fifty ways to solve a problem). I'm not going to tell anybody they're wrong or that they need to do anything different. I'm just hoping you all go to bed for the evening, and that you still manage to like each other when I get up.


beej67 - 10/22/09 02:33 AM

I want to make it clear that I like everyone here (before I go to bed Nitza LOL). I've watched this thread (well all the NS ones) go from general suggestions and advice in it's infancy to the strong friendships that have formed today and that's one of the things I've loved about it.

Know this tiff isn't the only reason I'm leaving, I honestly can't keep up here anymore. I just hope the group stays as supportive and caring for current and future members as it always has been for me. I'm sure I'll still pop in to read as I'm able.

Smartstart - I think reenee worded it best and I hope your illness perhaps inadvertently is responsible for a measure of your harshness tonight. I do generally admire you as well but your approach tonight was off the mark in my eyes. I'm sure you recall that I called you out for wallowing once here so I understand the value of tough love ... however yours was pretty heavy on the tough and light on the love. At 25 you are so full of promise - but at 25 things also seem so fresh and achievable. Certain life experiences can just beat a person down and make things seem hopeless and it can be hard to look past circumstances to remedies. To be honest, you usually are right and can be looked upon as one of our financial experts ... but don't leave the humanity out of the mix - IMO it's a large part of the beauty of this group.


reeneejune - 10/22/09 02:40 AM

In the spirit of bringing us all back together (and changing the topic) I'd like to hear from all of you lovely ladies about one of the s.tupidest money mistakes that you continued to make, even after you knew it was wrong. Please tell about your lessons learned and how the lightbulb clicked on for you. What I'm looking for here is not to make anyone feel bad, but to remind us all of where we've come from and how much we've ALL grown.

I'll get the ball rolling. 5 years ago I took out a payday loan to pay the deposit on an apartment. It was the sort of loan that you could pay back over 6-10 months, depending on the amount borrowed. Since taking out that loan, I've refinanced it countless times, but never paid it off. If I stick to my plan, I'll make my final payment December 28th of this year (the first business day after Christmas). Earlier this year it clicked for me that I've paid a sickening amount of money in interest and loan fees, easily double what I've received from the loans. The last time I was in the office to make a payment, I had them double check my file to ensure that my records were correct. When they plopped my file down on the counter I couldn't stop myself from saying "Oh my goodness my file is HUGE!" The girl laughed and told me that some of their customers had two FULL files, even thicker than mine. Is this debt toxic? No doubt about it. Did I know that when I took out the initial loan? Yes. Have I known that every single time I've refinanced? Absolutely. Did that stop me from continuing to make the same mistake over and over again? Nope.

Life lesson: Sometimes just being aware that you have a problem is the first step. Sometimes it's the only step you can take for a long while. And sometimes standing still is better progress than trying to forge ahead when you're not prepared for it.


beej67 - 10/22/09 03:03 AM

Thank you Renee.

My largest financial mistake was not saying no to my son often enough. I did not plan well for his college education - as in not at all. I could have paid the money out of pocket had he chosen to go to a local comm college or he would have qualified for some FA had he gone to a 4 year school. However, I agreed for him to go 3 hours away to a community college where 3 of his friends were going. The deal was he was to get a job and pay his living expenses and I would pay tuition and books (same as if he had gone to a local cc). Well, he partied, and had a grand ol time, and didn't get a job for that entire year. Ol' mom let him get away with it and probably $8 K of my former debt relates to expenses during that first year for his rent/utilities/fun money, etc (beyond tuition and books). I think I let him get away with so much bs because he was living in a single parent household and shouldn't suffer because of it. He is better off now for having moved home for year two of school, and now lives on his own with a FT job & fully supports himself. That episode was not only a learning experience for me, but for him as well on what not to do from absence of planning ahead to borrowing beyond my means.

Now, that was my last post for the time being ladies - RL has gotten too hectic for now between work, football & friends/family/&5 - so I don't know when I'll post next - but I'll be reading on occasion as able. I'm about 4 hours past my bedtime *** yawn****. 5 am will be here before I know it!


Sheila in Cali - 10/22/09 09:14 AM

reenee: Along the lines of Beej- many of my financial blunders come from spoiling the Boy. I have put my foot down but I used to get a lot of "mom can I buy this game on line?" "Mom, I am bored can we go to best buy?" When I think of the thousands of dollars of legos I have in tubes in my basement and combine that with the thousands of dollars of Thomas the Train stuff at my parents house I want to bury my head in the sand and hide. It's the stup.id little things that steam me. The $5.95 a month I pay for a monthly subscription to some random game that I agreed to let DS sign up for- that I am convinced he no longer plays or knows the password for so I can cancel it.


Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/22/09 09:19 AM

reeneejune, Such an excellent question. My answer is identical to beej's and while the DS is not partying any more, her answer could have been written by me. Yes, many moons ago I had a small finance company loan with similar experience as yours. Hmm. Something original? I'd volunteer "poor car purchase." Not Stacy Malibu, she's great, but DD#2's S.aturn has cost more in repairs than the danged car itself.

beej, Oh gosh. Please don't go. Check in on us. You're so sorely missed. No question, you've got one full agenda now! Still, how will we know all the neat things going on in your life?

smartstart, nitza is right. Let's wake up this morning back in friendship.


Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/22/09 09:22 AM

Ladies, as mittenkitten is no doubt swamped at home and wearing her realtor's hat, let's grab reeneejune's excellent question as our

Question of the Week:

I'd like to hear from all of you lovely ladies about one of the s.tupidest money mistakes that you continued to make, even after you knew it was wrong. Please tell about your lessons learned and how the lightbulb clicked on for you. What I'm looking for here is not to make anyone feel bad, but to remind us all of where we've come from and how much we've ALL grown

Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/22/09 09:26 AM

Sheila, LOL. I understand that one, too! DS adored A.rchie comics and just had to have them all. Two, three dollars a pop doesn't seem like much, but oh boy...on the tight budget we had, I'll admit I was buying myself an hour's peace and quiet. With DD#2, it was the B.abysitter's C.lub. The books are still lined up, yellow with age and covered with dust, I'm sure, in exDH's basement.


red_wagon - 10/22/09 09:37 AM

My biggest single financial mistake (spending like crazy in general after getting my first job being a year-long one) was probably re-signing my lease in 2007. I should have gotten roommates then, but the thought of moving again just stressed me out. So I signed and am still dealing with the debt from just buying groceries. And maybe from going on that cruise. The point is that instead of having money to save, it went to my rent, so that pretty much everything else went on my credit cards. Not a good way to live. That's why I'm so emphatic with blue that we have a budget and plan and save for major purchases. I know some of you were concerned that we were spending a lot the past few months, but it was all saved for, and for that I am so proud of myself/ourselves.


dea_81 - 10/22/09 09:41 AM

reenee- as for financial mistakes I keep making the most recent one is ignoring our spending. We had a plan to get out of debt that we started in 2007 when I first started lurking on the WIR board. I got pregnant at the very end of 2007 and we really buckled down and paid off $7000 before the baby was born in Aug 2008. But that whole month of August until this summer I really just had my head in the sand about where money was going. As long as there was money in the bank I didn't worry about where the rest of it went. Somehow we did manage to scrape enough money together and bought a house in Jan of 2009, but that was entirely DH's doing.

He has little clue in things financial but he did everything about buying the house. Again I just ignored the fact that I needed to watch the spending and we should be saving more and paying off debt. We even got the homeowners tax credit $ in our return and I was sick when I realized how quickly $8000 disappeared...Most of it went to renovating the house, bumping up the EF and car repairs. But I know a lot got wasted. I should have been more careful with that money. I still want to kick myself sometimes. Especially now that getting ahead is harder because daycare is MORE than our mortgage.


mrslynch - 10/22/09 09:45 AM

reenee--that's a good question. i think my biggest recurring financial blunder is planning to save more and then not. we have our $1K EF and a joint savings account for us as well as a savings account for littlelynch; each of those receive a deposit on payday. however, each time we pay off another debt, we say we're going to contribute more to savings but we wind up spending it on other stuff instead. i probably just need to increase the automatic deduction out of our paychecks but i don't because seeing the money stay in the checking account after having so many years of no money in the checking account after payday is nice.


Angel 33 - 10/22/09 09:45 AM

My financial blunder....well. Honestly, I went a long time self medicating my depression. The depression started off as Post Partum depression and moved into something more long term. I was miserable. I didn't have any family to help me. I was moving all the time and having to make knew friends constantly, so I spent money to make myself feel better. I also spent a lot of money on my kids. I definitely went through the "keeping up with the Jones's" stage.

I am doing a lot better with things now. I no longer suffer from depression (I do still have some anxiety though) and am slowly digging us out of debt. I do have to say though that our debt is NOT all my doing. My DH may not shop as much as I do, but when he does, he buys big ticket items even if we can't really afford them. We are both doing better at not buying big things and I am doing better not shopping when I get sad and lonely.


kath74 - 10/22/09 09:54 AM

AOTW - The same mistake I keep making is also not saying no enough - no to a lunch invitation when I've packed a perfectly good lunch, no to the extra things getting tossed into the grocery cart when I know full well it'll send us over the budget, no to extra expenses that aren't needs. I'm working on the speaking up part, and I'm looking at switching back to the all cash envelope system for awhile. And DBF and I are already making plans for when we're combining the households and talking about what's important for budgeting and the like. Can't wait to put the plans in action too!


wvugurl26 - 10/22/09 10:48 AM

AOTW I've been thinking about this all morning since I read this. At this point everything seems like a huge mistake. And then I think at the point I made these decisions to sign the lease, take out student loans, etc I was playing by the rules. With my old pay rent was 23% of my take home pay. My loans were half of my yearly salary. I guess my car could be a mistake but I like it and I plan on keeping it for a long time. I had a downpayment that was a little over 1/4 of the total price. I was paying extra every month and in fact this is the first month I have only paid the required minimum. I could also say my Becker books/root canal sitting on a 0% offer that will expire in May. I think though the biggest mistake is not trying harder/earlier to find a different job. I was tired/studying/always doing something else. I knew it wasn't a good fit for me and I continued to stay there while not doing enough to find a new job. Which led to me being fired and now I'm job searching in a bad economy with that black mark against me. And second to that would be not having a big enough emergency fund. I think those two together are really my mistakes.


chelleyk - 10/22/09 11:20 AM

Morning Ladies!!

My Financial Blunder- Moving out of NY to Atlanta and thinking I could live the same way down there as up here. I wanted to be sure that DS didn't want for anything in a new place so I bought stuff so he would be comfortable. I had no debt until I moved...couldn't live in a house with no furniture, pots, pans, etc...not to mention that the job I had lined up was non existent due to a hiring freeze. We stayed a year and moved back...luckily I was able to get this job a few months after my return. I'm finally getting to the end of the debt tunnel...I see glimmers of light. It's not far but it's not right around the corner either. But I know I can get there.


SingleMom - Ky - 10/22/09 11:50 AM

Financial Blunder: I would have to say that my biggest one was buying my car. It has since been paid off and I am keeping it until I have to get a new (to me) one but at the time I was young, wanted a brand new car and bought a VW Jetta (partly b/c several of my sorority sisters had the same model). At the time I was young, single, living at home, no kids, no real major financial commitments so I paid way too much a month which meant that I had no extra to put into savings. Everything was fine & dandy until Lil' Smokey came along - it's amazing the amount of scraping I had to do to get all of his bills paid.

My other issue is one of child support. I did not seek child support until Lil' Smokey was almost 18 months old. You know, that wishful thinking that things would just 'magically' take care of themselves and that his father would voluntarily pay. I do not have hard feelings toward Lil' Smokey's dad in regards to money b/c once we actually went through the official paperwork, I have received the full payment direct deposited into my account every 2 weeks, but I look back and think about how I used CCs and such to 'get by' during those first 18 months. Lesson learned there though and I now know that if a situation arises that is extraordinary or outside the "norm" I would have to take it to Lil' Smokey's dad for assistance/input.


teh mom - 10/22/09 11:59 AM

Startsmart- You just typed out what (sometimes) I wanted to type. I just tend to re read what I typed and backspace over it.

Jillbean-have you called your pediatricians office yet and ask for samples? Have you asked your employer to physically write out a check for you this week instead of direct deposit? Are the little ones feeling any better today?


dividend - 10/22/09 12:56 PM

I don't know that startsmart was all that wrong in the things she said, but I agree that the tone was kind of harsh. I've had times where a kick in the pants was really helpful, but I'm not sure that it does that much good when jillbean has literally $0 and a sick child. It's not like she'll hear that and say, oh, you're right, I'll take 50% of this $0 and put it into an emergency fund. That said, let's not beat up on startsmart either. The different and rich perspectives from all you ladies are what make this so valuable. So, to jillbean, and it seems like you've gotten some good advice about fever reducing, and trying to get samples of medicine and so forth.

[Honeylioness]

jillbean_1978 - 10/22/09 10:37 PM

I've been doing a lot of reading and there's a lot of people on this board and over at your money who do not have any debt. Some are against cc's. Don't have a mortgage. Zero debt. So does that mean they no longer have a credit score? I ask this because I know
what I was told to get a score at 2 banks. And my step-brother recently tried to buy a house. He was turned down because he had nothing on file. He'd always paid cash/check for things. Never had gotten a car loan or student loans, etc. and so he and his wife could not buy the house they had been living in for about a year. Now I realize that most of the posters here and over there on your money probably don't care what their score is.

How are we suppose to win this stu.pid game the banks play? If you buy stuff with cash, anything, and never have cc's and never get a loan for anything, then when you are ready or wanting to get a loan you can't. Then what?

For us I know that right now our scores are not good because of our debt. And then once that is paid and we no longer get loans of any kind. Won't that one day hurt us somehow? Like for better insurance? Or...am having trouble thinking of something else. LOL

Anyways. Just hit me that when you don't have a credit score you can be looked over just like you can when you have a bad one. Oh yeah! Jobs! Employers run credit checks on possible employees. If you don't have anything, that could probably cost you a job! Any
thoughts on this?

Sharing the Simple Lifestyle - 10/22/09 10:46 PM

jillbean, It's a good question. I know we talked a lot about this last year when many of us were watching Carmen Wong Ulrich. I remember that several of our posters were really up-to-date on this very question. My general take is that paying utility bills on time also counts towards a good credit score. I need to know this answer for DS and DIL as well, so I'll watch for those more knowledgeable to answer you.

red_wagon - 10/22/09 11:16 PM

Jillbean - yes, there are some people who don't use credit cards, student loans, etc, and somehow find other ways to secure a mortgage or buy a house outright. For us more normal folks, a credit score is unfortunately a very important part of our financial picture.

You might get the loan with a low score, but you'll be paying much more in interest. What I would advise is to have one major credit card (visa, mc), and one store card (kohls, macys) at the very least. This does NOT mean you use them all the time. What the credit
reporting agencies want to see is basically that you can be trusted to borrow money. That you will make your payments on time.

So, perhaps use each card once a month (or two) for gas or a carton of milk. When you get your statement, pay it off in full (you should set aside the cash the minute you use the card, so you don't get caught offguard). Many people (myself included, once upon a time), see credit cards as "free money" that will get paid back "someday" instead of as a short-term loan, which it is. By having this credit available, using it reasonably and always paying on time, you will build up your credit score.

Yes, utilities can be a part of your credit report, but I've never seen mine on my report, so I'm not sure how that works. It might only be that if you DON'T pay or your bills go to collections that it will show up as a negative. Other things that can help (to a point, again, don't go into TONS of debt just to get a good score) is having a long credit history (my score is helped by the fact that I'm on my parents card which is 20 years old), having a good mix (store card, major card, loan), and having a good debt/credit ratio, meaning you don't use a lot of the credit available to you (mine is pretty bad, unfortunately). Also, not having TONS of credit cards helps. I've closed two in the past year because I was up to 7 (yikes. thanks to balance transfers).

And I'm sure even many of those who don't believe in cc's or loans still use them from time to time to maintain their credit scores. They just don't rely on them for daily expenses.

I hope this helps. It is an excellent question to ask, indeed!


red_wagon - 10/22/09 11:18 PM

and jill, I don't think your score would go away or anything, but it might suffer if you haven't show responsible credit use in a very long time. Like I said, use the card every few months and pay it off just to let them know you're still there and being good. and sorry if my previous post was redundant info of what you're already learned it was a good review for me though! hehe.


jillbean_1978 - 10/22/09 11:38 PM

Red- That info helped a lot. I'm not overly worried about mine. I now know that those loan officer's at 2 different banks telling me how to get credit was a very wrong thing to do. Now, once I get everything paid off that is my and Dh's names, I won't care that
much to get anything ever again. We were way so stu.pid with cc's. And I don't think I could ever allow us to get another ever again. LOL

Now when my step-brother(What's the letters for that? DSB?) went to the bank to get a mortgage, he had nothing. Not even where he had been paying his utilities, insurance, etc. was not even on there.

However, when I friend went to, finally, get insurance on his car and he was accepted on the spot he was told "You must have excellent credit." And he hadn't gotten a loan in 15 years. And I think it was on MSN I read that employers look at your credit
score. I do seem to recall when I applied for a bank, it said that they would do a credit check on me.

Hmm. Maybe others will add to this. Although I will be really disappointed to find out that those people who say never ever have cc's end up having cc's to keep their credit up. That would be like Dave Ramsey having 5 major cc's!!!! LOL

[Honeylioness]

3catslady - 10/22/09 11:26 PM [/u]

Five years ago I was evicted from the place where I lived. I was so angry that I did not
clean up the cat**** nor anything else that was wrong. Today I got a letter from the
apartment place saying that they could not rent to me because of the eviction/potential
health hazard and late payment history. Up until January when I joined this thread, I
did not pay my bills on time. I need to get a copy of my credit report from expedian
because that is the one they used. I have transunion credit report. So I need to make a
few more calls and see what I can list do. My SIL sent me 2 numbers to call and I have
at least 3 more numbers on the list that I already have. Yeah, I was a dumb one but not
anymore.


jillbean_1978 - 10/23/09 12:08 AM[/u]

3cats- I am sorry to hear about the apartment. I've done something like that too.
Landlord refused to fix the leaking hot water heater and fix the oven door that fell off
every time you opened the oven. So I told her...I won't pay you rent if you don't fix it.
She told me I had 2 weeks to get out. There I was, single with 2 kids and no where to go.
LOL I left a few things behind. I kinda feel bad about it, but mostly don't because she
is an e-vil woman!!! To this day she is mean. Not just to me, everyone! I will pray that
you get a great offer on your house very soon. And my kitchen is a soft green with white
cabinets. At least they would be white if there wasn't any little finger and paw prints
on them .